The Death Penalty

[Darkdale]

Yesterday, Virginia's Governor Mark Warner (D), granted clemency to the would be 1,000th felon executed in America.

Virginia's governor on Tuesday spared the life of a convicted killer who would have been the 1,000th person executed in the United States since the Supreme Court allowed capital punishment to resume in 1976. Robin Lovitt's death sentence was commuted to life in prison without parole a little more than 24 hours before he was to be executed by injection Wednesday night for stabbing a man to death with a pair of scissors during a 1998 pool-hall robbery. In granting clemency, Gov. Mark R. Warner noted that evidence from the trial had been improperly destroyed, depriving the defense of the opportunity to subject the material to the latest in DNA testing. "The commonwealth must ensure that every time this ultimate sanction is carried out, it is done fairly," Warner said in a statement.

Warner, a Democrat, had never before granted clemency to a death row inmate during his four years in office. During that time, 11 men have been executed. Virginia is one of the most active death-penalty states, having executed 94 people since 1976. The 1,000th execution is now scheduled for Friday in North Carolina, where Kenneth Lee Boyd is slated to die for killing his estranged wife and her father.

Now, this really upset my g/f who is a big fan of the death penalty. Eye for an eye and all that; but I feel that the death penalty is unnecessary and therefore unreasonable. We just don't need to be giving our government the power to kill it's citizens. It has nothing to do with life or crime or punishment, but rather with the rights of the citizens to protect themselves from their government. Anyway... Death Penalty? Yay or Nay?

 

[michel]

No, the Death Penalty is unjust. is what I voted for, although, just for a minute, my finger hovvered over the "Only in the worst cases is it just" option.

My Morals and religious beliefs tell me my vote was correct, but when I hear of some of the most abysmal crimes, I can't help but be tempted to go for the second option...........

Luckilly, I have one good guideline for connundrums such as this one. "Would I be prepared to be the 'killer' ?" If the answer is 'No', then I have no right passing the buck onto others.

 

[jeffrey]

I'm against it for 2 reasons. As Darkdale and michel said, it's not for us or the government to kill. 2nd, with crimes against children where they are raped and tortured, the death penalty is to good for them. Let them spend the rest of their lives in a prison system where there are inmates that have kids of their own. They'll deal with him.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

As I've said before on the forum, I support the death penalty but it is impractical and expensive. If it is here to stay, then it needs reform, and the problem with reform is that those who don't support it will have a golden opportunity to get rid of it altogether.

I just took a poll on msnbc, 72% of the people polled said that they support the death penalty.

The problem with keeping a killer alive in prison "without parole" is that as long as they are alive, there is a possibility that they will be released, no matter how slight.

 

[robtex]

It is really a complexed system in the USA. I say the USA because I am too ignorant of other systems to have an informed opinion. But in the USA with the wrongful convictions, forced confessions, jail birds pressured into purjury I think the death-penalty system it too disfuntional to be used irregardless of one's moral take on it. If we could advance DNA testing, eliminate DA's win loss ratios and meathods of promotion (to becoming judges) on death penatly cases, take pressure off law enforcement to find killers (thus pressuring them to find anyone as opposed to the real murder), and clean up the dirty politics of the death penatly game than we could debate the morality of the death penatly. But as it stands right now, we are measuring the morality of the death penatly with a "broken" instrument. That instrument being the current crimminal justice system.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Take a look at this: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article330749.ece

An Australian citizen was executed in Singapore for heroin trafficing - and his father was executed for drugs too (see the last paragraph).

That seems pretty brutal.

 

[robtex]

Nate, it is funny how that works. China may have been instrumental in that endeavor as they were executing British merchants selling Opium in the 1600's. The Chinese at that time justified this by saying that the drug dealers were in effect "slowly killing" the users overtime by getting addicted to what was in affect poison. I bet Singapore has a similar arguement for justification. Certainly an interesting topic of debate going into the weekend. I gotta get off to work now though.

 

[SoyLeche]

Take a look at this: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article330749.ece

An Australian citizen was executed in Singapore for heroin trafficing - and his father was executed for drugs too (see the last paragraph).

That seems pretty brutal.

I think you misread the last paragraph. It was saying that among the demonstrators were some twin brothers whose father had been executed. When I first read you post, I suddenly didn't feel bad for the guy. If his father had been executed for smugling drugs, he shouldn't have thought, "well, I'll get away with it though." Now that I've read the article, a bit of my compasion is back.

 

[Darkdale]

What seems the most dangerous to me is the fact that the government is always capable of changing what offenses are punishable by death and which are not. At the moment, it is reserved for murderers, but in the future, what if it included drug dealings or flag burning or rape or theft? The American People will be much safer if we simply prohibit the government from having the option to kill. Lifetime in jail is punishment enough and for these individuals, I have no problem under-funding their prisons. If all they are given is one meal, some vitamins and water, I'm fine with that. If the prisons are nasty and dirty... I'm fine with that. There is no reason to make these murderers comfortable and maybe they will truly wish they were dead.

It really is a matter of what rights, over the people, should a government have. Death shouldn't be one of their rights.

 

[AtheistAJ]

I'm against the death penalty and think it should be replaced with 20 years in the mines. Although for some extreme religiously motivated mass murderers who are willing to kill themselves at cost of killing as many as possible, exception must be made for sake of society.

 

[Darkdale]

I'm against the death penalty and think it should be replaced with 20 years in the mines. Although for some extreme religiously motivated mass murderers who are willing to kill themselves at cost of killing as many as possible, exception must be made for sake of society.

That's war. I fully support killing America's enemies. As many and as often as possible. Knockout

 

[Green Gaia]

Frubals to the first person who can tell me what movie this quote is from that sums up my thoughts on why we should not kill people, even the bad ones: Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

 

[SoyLeche]

Frubals to the first person who can tell me what movie this quote is from that sums up my thoughts on why we should not kill people, even the bad ones: Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

Fellowship of the Ring, right?

 

[Darkdale]

Fellowship of the Ring, right?

yep. damn you.

 

[Green Gaia]

Fellowship of the Ring, right?

You got it.

 

[Mike182]

i have said many times in different thread's that i strongly feel the death penalty is a fundamental hypocricy, so three guesses what my stance will be in this thread:sarcastic

 

[Engyo]

I think the wrong question is asked here; not so much whether capital punishment is just, but whether it is effective. Does it accomplish the job of making criminals apprehensive enough about being subject to it that it deters crime?

From the general run of the mill news reports I read, it does not. If it is not accomplishing its intended purpose, then why continue with it?

 

[Mike182]

I think the wrong question is asked here; not so much whether capital punishment is just, but whether it is effective. Does it accomplish the job of making criminals apprehensive enough about being subject to it that it deters crime?

From the general run of the mill news reports I read, it does not. If it is not accomplishing its intended purpose, then why continue with it?

it is also more soctly to get someone tried and put on death row than it is to get them locked away

but even if it was cheaper, and it did affect crime rates, would it be more supportable? no, because it is still hypocritical

 

[Darkdale]

I see it this way:

What is the effective difference between killing a person and keeping them in jail for their life?

1. In both cases, the person cannot kill again. Effective.
2. Neither case has been shown to actually prevent murder. If someone wants to kill, no amount of threat of punishment will stop them.
3. If keeping a person in jail for the rest of their life is just as effective as killing a them, why not err on the side of life? Why give the government a power that isn't necessary? We do this all the time and I don't understand it. We should only give our government powers that are necessary.

 

[Quiddity]

Argggggg.....SoyLeche beat me to it...
I Oppose Death Penalty...

~Victor