The Culture of Death?

[jamaesi]

I`ve got a 16 year old boy here who has been of sound enough mind to consent to sex if he wants for the past few years.
If he had sex it wouldn`t have been because he was coerced.
It would have been because he wanted it.
Thats not rape.

Define "child"

Child is someone who has not reached puberty.

A 16 year old, in most cases, has.

 

[linwood]

And once again, I repeat, there is no such thing as child sex as children, legally and mentally, can not consent.

It is child rape.

Within YOUR culture.

History is riddled with different moralities and children who regularly engage in sex with no negative affects because their cultures expect them to do so.

I`m not disagreeing with you within the context of our culture but what you speak of is not a universal moral rule.

Child is someone who has not reached puberty.

A 16 year old, in most cases, has.

I said he has been of sound enough mind for the past few years.
So to be ethically correct we must judge which child has reached puberty in order to allow sex .
If thats the case there will be children at 12-13 who can ethically have sex as far as you`re concerned.

I disagree with that in the context of our culture.

 

[jamaesi]

If thats the case there will be children at 12-13 who can ethically have sex as far as you`re concerned.

I disagree with that in the context of our culture.

It doesn't cause the same mental tramua as forcing a child into sex opposed to a 13 year old deciding to mess around with someone of a similar age.

And all through history in the entire world you see kids getting married at 12-13 and having kids. Why do you disagree? It's /culture/.

 

[linwood]

It doesn't cause the same mental tramua as forcing a child into sex opposed to a 13 year old deciding to mess around with someone of a similar age.

Again you use the word "force".
I am not speaking of "forced" sex, the concept is irrelevant to the subject.

And all through history in the entire world you see kids getting married at 12-13 and having kids. Why do you disagree? It's /culture/.

I don`t disagree when speaking of "all through the history of the world".

I specifically stated that I disagreed within the context of our culture because our children generally are not raised to regard sex at an early age and therefore are not prepared for the consequences of sex at an early age.

 

[Majikthise]

I`m not getting your point Majik.
I never said I condone rape, in fact rape is one of the few inherently immoral acts I can think of.

What are you saying?

My children are 4 and 9. Shane is still learning to go to the toilet all the time and not in his pants because he feels like it. Annie is working on learning responsibilities like schooling, helping with the chores and not talking her brother into doing things he shouldn't. This is the very short list and they still have to be allowed to be just kids too. At these ages kids have enough to worry about without throwing sexuality into the mix which most adults have trouble dealing with.
The thought of anyone, including teens, considering children of these ages in any way to be sexually aware or available ,frankly ,turns my stomach.
Some standard has to be set in society, culture,what have you , or you will leave the door open for deviants to trick children into doing or saying whatever they wish. It's easy to influence or trick a child as they still have a lot of basics about life to learn before they are forced into dealing with more complicated matters.
Why can't we just let kids be kids for a little while anymore?

If we ant to pass legislation to ban circumsision ,then I have no objections. The reasons for it seem to have been debunked and shown it to be an outdated and useless practice. The only reason left for it's exsistance is religious ceremony, and that is a whole other arguement.
Children being introduced to sexuality at an early age as a purposeful practice is just not necassary. It's not going to prepare them for anything , it will only confuse them as they do not yet possess other basic life skills needed to deal with these ideas and emotions .

Liinwood, maybe it's just that you have older kids and are dealing with a whole different set of variables that I have yet to remotely have to face. But I am still in little kid mode and the thought of someone taking advantage of them, or any other child, in such a horrible manner scares the living crap out of me.
What's the age of consent in my opinon? Even with me it's somewhat open to the situation. A 25 year old and a 15 year old? Wrong IMO.
A 19 year old and a 16 year old? Ok , but pushing it.
Still , a lot depends on the situation and maturity of the individuals in question. Once everybody conserned is over 18 , anything goes. Like I said before, there has to be some standard, with maybe a very little bit a of wiggle room. But I won't open the door a crack for pedophiles. Have you ever listened to one of them defend their position? There are real monsters in this world.

 

[mr.guy]

Some standard has to be set in society, culture,what have you , or you will leave the door open for deviants to trick children into doing or saying whatever they wish. It's easy to influence or trick a child as they still have a lot of basics about life to learn before they are forced into dealing with more complicated matters.

Which is all the more reason to demand better arguments then "they lack proper consent". Unfortunately, we rarely hear much else; it might ultimately prove a poor defense if simply left at that. I sympathize with the rhetorisists and reactionists of this thread, but probing the issue a little more honestly and unbiasedly doesn't necessitate a free-for-all pedophilia buffet.

 

[linwood]

Liinwood, maybe it's just that you have older kids and are dealing with a whole different set of variables that I have yet to remotely have to face. But I am still in little kid mode and the thought of someone taking advantage of them, or any other child, in such a horrible manner scares the living crap out of me.
What's the age of consent in my opinon? Even with me it's somewhat open to the situation. A 25 year old and a 15 year old? Wrong IMO.
A 19 year old and a 16 year old? Ok , but pushing it.
Still , a lot depends on the situation and maturity of the individuals in question. Once everybody conserned is over 18 , anything goes. Like I said before, there has to be some standard, with maybe a very little bit a of wiggle room. But I won't open the door a crack for pedophiles. Have you ever listened to one of them defend their position? There are real monsters in this world.

Majik,

I think we have a disconnect somewhere here.
I`ve got three kids, 2 boys 13 & 16 and 1 girl 5 years old.
I have no problem with the societal standards concerning sexuality and children in our culture.
I am just trying to get the idea across that this is the way it is IN OUR CULTURE AND NOT AN INHERENT MORAL RULE.
It`s not universal, it`s not a law of physics.
Just because we as Americans feel this way does not make us RIGHT in all instances.
Joseph Smith of the Carly Bruscia abduction is a pedophile.
Mohhamed is not.
Both had sex with early teen children but they did not do so for the same reasons nor are the two cultures able to be compared by the standards of either one.

This is all I am saying and all I have been saying.
Perhaps not clearly enough.

I am much more open about sex with my kids than most parents but I think it can only help them.
My 5 year old knows where babies come from.
She knows because she asked, I answered.
I`m not about to lie to her.

 

[Majikthise]

Which is all the more reason to demand better arguments then "they lack proper consent". Unfortunately, we rarely hear much else; it might ultimately prove a poor defense if simply left at that. I sympathize with the rhetorisists and reactionists of this thread, but probing the issue a little more honestly and unbiasedly doesn't necessitate a free-for-all pedophilia buffet.

Your absolutely right. Besides lacking the ability to properly consent it causes real and lasting physical and mental damage to the child as well as their families and for what, the unthinking selfish twisted pleasure of someone too immature or mentally unstable to deal with people their own age. I'm talking about small children who for some reason are not specified when discussing this subject. If you are talking about teens , say so , don't lump them in the conversation with young children , toddlers and babies.
I'm a social liberal that has no problem whatsoever with homosexuality. I have friends and family who are gay, my kids are around them all the time. My son obviously has no concept of it but my daughter knows they have relationships just like her mother and I. I would be a hypocrite not to support gay marriage as I am a married atheist. And I don't subscribe to the ignorant notion that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia.
Hell, if someone wants to have an intimate relationship with an animal, I think their wierd, but go for it. If you want to have sex with food, have at it. I'm a pro choice, anti-racist, dope smoking, gay rights advocating liberal.
I just can't look at pedophiles as anything other than sick miscreants that when discovered need to be dealt with quickly and violently.

 

[Majikthise]

Majik,

I think we have a disconnect somewhere here.
I`ve got three kids, 2 boys 13 & 16 and 1 girl 5 years old.
I have no problem with the societal standards concerning sexuality and children in our culture.
I am just trying to get the idea across that this is the way it is IN OUR CULTURE AND NOT AN INHERENT MORAL RULE.
It`s not universal, it`s not a law of physics.
Just because we as Americans feel this way does not make us RIGHT in all instances.
Joseph Smith of the Carly Bruscia abduction is a pedophile.
Mohhamed is not.
Both had sex with early teen children but they did not do so for the same reasons nor are the two cultures able to be compared by the standards of either one.

This is all I am saying and all I have been saying.
Perhaps not clearly enough.

I am much more open about sex with my kids than most parents but I think it can only help them.
My 5 year old knows where babies come from.
She knows because she asked, I answered.
I`m not about to lie to her.

Linwood ,

I realise you are talking from a cultural standpoint now, sorry.
Annie knew where babies come when she was 5 also. Shane was born and she already knew he was inside Tammy. She's a girl so it was easy to to tell her where he came out and that when she got older she could have a baby. What I didn't offer was info on how he got there. :flirt: I'm no prude but I'm not exactly anxious to have that conversation with her. I spent 3 hrs one night explaining to her about the origins of the Universe and evolution.
Imparting sexual information to kids slowly and situationaly is essential and beneficial ,but I think diving into the deep end all at once might cause some confusion.

 

[linwood]

I realise you are talking from a cultural standpoint now, sorry.

No problem Majik, from other replies to my posts here it`s obvious to me I wasn`t being as clear as I should have been.

I spent 3 hrs one night explaining to her about the origins of the Universe and evolution.

Those conversations are awesome aren`t they?

Imparting sexual information to kids slowly and situationaly is essential and beneficial ,but I think diving into the deep end all at once might cause some confusion.

I totally agree, thats how I`m trying to handle it myself.

Thanks.

 

[Majikthise]

Those conversations are awesome aren`t they?.

Oh heck yeah!

 

[Maxist]

Hmm, well simply put, I beleive that it was sent by the American government. They like it's citisens to be ignorant to the truth. They will most likly say that god is a saint who can do no wrong, and that is the definition. But in Judiesm, Christianity, Chatholisism, as well as many others. God is depicted as a coward. Now many of you will imediatly get angry of the thought and have mind to yell at me. However this is not the case. Listen to the remainder of my argument. On with it. When God gets angry at Adam and Eve he throws them out of his house. When the Generation of Noah displeases him, he kills them all. So I beleive that if you all who beleive in these things you cannot argue when I say that God would be far abusing His power. Which would emply some evil is in Him. And since the definition of God is somthing that can do no evil and that is perfect, that would imply that it is not a god. So ask yourseves what you truly beleive.

 

[Majikthise]

Nice, I like it.:clap

But I'd prefer to stick with the US government, I've at least come to the point where I know what to expect. No government is any better than another where politics are concerned, even if the people really were to be in charge.

Good post though!