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The Creationist Lie That Just Wont Die

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Recently it's been mentioned that evolution is necessarily linked to abiogenesis, the idea that life originated from non-living material (non-life). While most evolutionists do subscribe to it, the concept has absolutely nothing to with the science behind evolution. Perhaps evolution did get its jump-start through abiogenesis, or maybe panspermia wherein life first came to earth from outer space. Or, maybe god started it all. Thing is, it... just... doesn't... matter. And anyone in the least bit conversant with evolution would know this. Even those who hate the idea of evolution. However, many of these evolution-haters, creationists, find the subject too enticing to let lie, and use it time and again to create an evolutionary straw man to do battle with. Pretending that its part and parcel of the evolutionary theory, they then challenging evolutionists to defend it. It would be like asserting that all of Jesus' teachings came about because he was a homosexual, and it was up to the Christian to explain it away.

But none-Christians don't do this because it simply isn't cricket. Yet too many Christians don't think the rules of cricket matter, and go ahead and make asinine statements like the following:

(Just to note: While a couple of the following creationists don't specifically say abiogenesis is part of evolutionary theory, the fact that they bring up abiogenesis in their creationist web sites is evidence enough they believe it's a crucial issue to raise. Just keep in mind, that in their work evolutionist don't give a rat's *** about abiogenesis.)



The lie of evolution and the stupidity of those believe it (Wisdom of god)

Yet never have elements, nor molecules, nor dirt, nor rocks, nor even water made themselves form into living organisms, as if what is not alive can make itself alive, let alone form itself into an intricate cell or a complex body made up of many cells, and make these “alive”, whether suddenly, or even slowly, it is impossible, and this is what the evolutionists believe and also teach, which is “life randomly came to be on its own after millions of years”, which is nothing more than a fantasy, something that they themselves have never even witnessed under their microscopes, that elements and molecules that are not alive suddenly or very slowly formed into living organisms, yet they choose to believe this lie, and teach it to others as if it were the truth by calling it “fact”, because they do not want to believe that life came to be in the following way written long ago,
source ...With a nod of thanks to Nakosis for alerting me to the site.

[ nice run-on sentence, which is why I had to include it all :) ]
________________________________

The Unbelievers Plan to Rid the World of God (Answers in Genesis)

Yet neither Darwin nor his successors have through scientific observation shown how either abiogenesis or the evolution of biological complexity is possible.

Further, biological observation confirms that living things do not spring into existence through the random interaction of non-living components, despite evolutionary claims about abiogenesis.
source
______________________________

Why the Miller–Urey research argues against abiogenesis (Creation.com)

Contemporary research has failed to provide a viable explanation as to how abiogenesis could have occurred on Earth. The abiogenesis problem is now so serious that most evolutionists today tend to shun the entire field because they are ‘uneasy about stating in public that the origin of life is a mystery, even though behind closed doors they freely admit that they are baffled’ because ‘it opens the door to religious fundamentalists and their god-of-the-gaps pseudo-explanations’ and they worry that a ‘frank admission of ignorance will undermine funding’.
source
____________________________

Why Abiogenesis Is Impossible (Creation Research Society)

If naturalistic molecules-to-human-life evolution were true, multibillions of links are required to bridge modern humans with the chemicals that once existed in the hypothetical “primitive soup”. This putative soup, assumed by many scientists to have given birth to life over 3.5 billion years

No contemporary hypothesis today has provided a viable explanation as to how the abiogenesis origin of life could occur by naturalistic means. The problems are so serious that the majority of evolutionists today tend to shun the whole subject of abiogenesis.
source
_________________________

The Improbability of Abiogenesis (creationscience.org)

According to the theory of evolution, taken in the broad sense, living matter arose at some point in the past from non-living matter by ordinary chemical and physical processes. This is called abiogenesis.
source
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Key Step in Origin of Life Declared (Creation evolution headlines)

Cornelius Hunter, an intelligent-design scientist with a PhD in biochemistry, was also charitable on his blog Darwin’s God, but had to state that abiogenesis is one of the “silliest of all the icons of evolution.”
source
__________________________

Abiogenesis, The First Cell (Greater Houston Creation Association)

The origin of the first cell is a major challenge for evolutionist.
source
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The Impossibility of Life's Evolutionary Beginnings (Institute for creation research)

The hypothetical naturalistic origin of life and its most basic biomolecules from non-living matter is called abiogenesis. This paradigm lies at the very foundation of biological evolution,
source
______________________________

More Arguments Against Evolution (Revolution against evolution)

According to evolution theory, the first step in life’s development was formation of life-like chemical molecules, which later combined into complex molecules like DNA. This presumably took place in the early oceans; it’s sometimes called “chemical evolution of life from a primordial soup.”
source
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Origin of Life: Instability of Building Blocks (True origin.org)

Evolutionary propaganda often understates the difficulty of a naturalistic origin of life.
source
______________________________

The Theory of Evolution (Biblical-science.net)

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the widely held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers -- all related. Darwin's general theory presumes the development of life from non-life . . . .
source
________________________________

EVALUATING EVOLUTION: USING PHILOSOPHY, PSYCHOLOGY AND PHYSICS (Twin Cities creation science association)


Let me begin with some definitions. By "evolution" I mean the notion that we and all living things come from non-living things, and have developed by completely natural means without any outside direction or power.
source
_______________________________

Evolution (Creationism.org)

ORGANIC EVOLUTION: Life emerging from sterile non-life by believed automatic advanced chemical processes. This has also been called spontaneous generation or more recently abiogenesis.
source


So, now that it's clear that those creationists who, through their web sites are either leaders in the creationist movement, or wanna-be leaders, have no compunctions about deceiving the public through lies, do they really deserve to call themselves Christians?


.

I don’t think it is lie. More like not understanding simple concepts. The former requires intelligence, the latter not necessarily.

Ciao

- viole
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I don’t think it is lie. More like not understanding simple concepts. The former requires intelligence, the latter not necessarily.
I believe if you were more familiar with the give and take between evolutionists and these creationists it would be quite clear they're well aware that abiogenesis plays no part in evolutionary theory.





Algebra.png
 

Justatruthseeker

Active Member
Says those that seem to be able only to start with pre-existing species while claiming to be explaining the "origin" of species......
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Says those that seem to be able only to start with pre-existing species while claiming to be explaining the "origin" of species......
Why do creationists have such a hard time understanding this? The Origin of Species explains how new species arise out of existing ones. That is why abiogenesis is a separate but related topic. Darwinian evolution explains how life grows continually more diverse. It does not matter what the source of the first lifeforn was.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I believe if you were more familiar with the give and take between evolutionists and these creationists it would be quite clear they're well aware that abiogenesis plays no part in evolutionary theory.





If only-- or is it simply that Creationists do not care one way or the other, if they lie about evolution?

So long as they remain "in message", so to speak?
 

Justatruthseeker

Active Member
You have no species without first there being species.... Regardless of how hard you try to avoid it, the beginning of life is paramount to the ToE..... The very first species would be the "origin" of species. After that it would not deal with origins, but change of one existing species into another....

the post should have been entitled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont die....."
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You have no species without first there being species.... Regardless of how hard you try to avoid it, the beginning of life is paramount to the ToE..... The very first species would be the "origin" of species. After that it would not deal with origins, but change of one existing species into another....

the post should have been entitled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont die....."
No that would be abiogenesis. Right now you are trying to refute evolution using an equivocation fallacy. At best that only means that you do not understand what "The Origin of Species" means in the context that Darwin used.

You also appear to be looking for a nonexistent border. There is no border between one species and another as they evolve. For organisms like mammals the differences between two groups increases to the point where they can no longer interbreed successfully. Like lions and tigers. They can reproduce somewhat, but those lines die. The offspring of the two have greatly reduced fertility. And their offspring have even more reduced fertility. I am unaware of any third generation offspring at all. Their health is also rather poor and they only exist in captivity.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
You have no species without first there being species.... Regardless of how hard you try to avoid it, the beginning of life is paramount to the ToE..... The very first species would be the "origin" of species. After that it would not deal with origins, but change of one existing species into another....

You used the expression "the beginning of life". This is a concept that is important only to theists and creos.

It is not a valid question to scientists. Scientists understand that there is a steady progression from atoms to molecules to protein chains to cells.

Your whole "beginning of life" schtick is completely meaningless to science and scientists.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
You have no species without first there being species.... Regardless of how hard you try to avoid it, the beginning of life is paramount to the ToE..... The very first species would be the "origin" of species. After that it would not deal with origins, but change of one existing species into another....

the post should have been entitled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont die....."
No, the title is just fine.

Let me explain it this way. Evolution deals ONLY with change. It's like a game of chess. It doesn't matter who set up the board, be it your mother, brother, lover, or god himself. The ONLY thing that matters in a game of chess is the change that takes place among the pieces.

.
 
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ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You have no species without first there being species.... Regardless of how hard you try to avoid it, the beginning of life is paramount to the ToE..... The very first species would be the "origin" of species. After that it would not deal with origins, but change of one existing species into another....

the post should have been entitled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont die....."
This is like arguing that the origin of mass is "paramount" to the theory of gravity, and any observation, experiment or fact relating to gravity is irrelevant until we have a complete understanding of where mass came from. It's senseless. You don't need to know the origin of mass in order to observe and understand how bodies of mass draw each other together, and you don't need to know the origin of life in order to observe and understand how populations of living things change over time.

This really isn't that hard to grasp.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Hello ChristineM. I'm a lawyer with a physics major, I'm not a biology major. That said, my studies ranged fairly broadly across the hard sciences. I'm not aware of any "overwhelming" evidence for molecule to man evolution.
Shocking.

As a lawyer with 'hard science' studies under his belt, please tell us all in which hard science class you learned the phrase "molecules to man evolution". One of your lawyer classes, maybe?

Or more likely, a creationist website or book.

Saw you coming a mile away...
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Hello again, I'm not aware of any experiments that have kick started life from non-life. The Miller-Urey experiment, and similar experiments haven't come close to creating life from non-life. There is effectively an infinite gap between the amino acids created in the Miller experiment and the incredible complexity of even the simplest single-celled organism.

Are they as big as the gaps between the silicates that comprised the pre-biotic dust of the ground that Jehovah then - via speaking and breathing, apparently - being turned into thousands of organic compounds and then into a fully-formed adult human male?
Do tell - surely this was gone over in your various hard science courses.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Namely, the creation of the physical universe, the laws of physics and life itself by the Self-Existent, Eternal and Triune God of Scripture.
And there it is, your real reason for being here.

To preach.

You people are so predictable. 'Hard science' background.... Right.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
I'm not making an argument from ignorance. I believe the evidence supports special creation far better than it does a self-forming universe and self-forming life.

great! Then you can be the FIRST creationist I have ever encountered to actually offer evidence that supports creation as opposed to just the usual lame and misinformed nonsensical attacks on evolution.

After all, I'm sure that your hard science background and especially your law school experience must have taught you about false dichotomies and how ruling out one thing does NOT mean that another thing, which itself is devoid of evidence in its support, is correct.

Can't wait!
 

We Never Know

No Slack
You have no species without first there being species.... Regardless of how hard you try to avoid it, the beginning of life is paramount to the ToE..... The very first species would be the "origin" of species. After that it would not deal with origins, but change of one existing species into another....

the post should have been entitled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont die....."

Evolution deals with life evolving not life starting. Once life existed you had a specie which evolved to be different species ("Evolution of a species"). Abiogenesis is before life. That's it in a nut shell.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Shocking.

As a lawyer with 'hard science' studies under his belt, please tell us all in which hard science class you learned the phrase "molecules to man evolution". One of your lawyer classes, maybe?

Or more likely, a creationist website or book.

Saw you coming a mile away...
I think he may have been a hit and run poster that realized he was in over his head.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
the post should have been entitled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont die....."
Perhaps you should start a thread titled "the evolutionists attempt at distraction that just wont (sic) die". Then you could present all your evidence.
 
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