Hello,
@Polymath257 my respected and learned friend, I know that.
But welcome. I humbly state that you misconstrue the purpose of the thread. I am not trying to prove the woo. I am not proposing and arguing for ‘quantum consciousness’. I think that is the woo.
In this thread, I require your help and patience. I am requesting that. Let me re-introduce the purpose. We are accustomed to examining and interpreting the scientific data from the perspective of realism-materialism. We start axiomatically with the understanding that the universe is constituted of discrete objects, some of which are endowed with the power to know, think, feel, and imagine -arisen epiphenomenally.
In this thread, I request my learned friends
@sayak83 and
@Polymath257 (and any other willing to be friendly) to participate in an exercise to relook at the physics data, assuming an alternative worldview as axiomatic. The view essentially entails a ‘non-dual conscious existence’. The purpose is not to create an adversarial stage where opponents kill each other. I wish this discussion to be e open and friendly. But I will understand if
@Polymath257 or
@sayak83 do not wish to participate.
So, let me start.
In my understanding, the physical rules that we have unravelled always indicate that there is a kind of access consciousness intrinsic to the universe. For example, if I drop a ball from a height, I can calculate the state of the ball in terms of position and momentum. But how does nature implement this? Similarly, how does nature know to maintain the half-life of decay?
With the coming of Relativity and Quantum mechanics, more mysteries have been added and not reduced. Relativity has made mass-energy and space-time the conjugate parameters. Quantum mechanics has compelled us to think in terms of holism, information exchange and ‘observation’ and has removed the plank of certainty from ‘realism’. So, I request my learned friends to examine physics data in light of what I present below. I request for patience and openness if you choose to participate.
Below, first, I reproduce just one passage from Isha Upanishad about the non-dual person that envelopes all knowledge. Then I will briefly define consciousness from the non-dual perspective.
Isha Upanishad
16. O nourishes, only seer, controller of all-o illumining Sun, fountain of life for all creatures-withhold withhold thy light, gather together thy rays. May I behold through thy grace thy most blessed form. The Being that dwells therein-even that Being am I.
translated by Swami Prabhavanand and Frederick Manchester. The Upanishads: Breath of the Eternal (p. 5). Kindle Edition.
In another Upanishad, the text is "The person in the eye is the same as in the sun". The person - the seer/knower is non-dual. The person that is in my eye is the same person that is in sun. The Person-consciousness envelops all that be known directly or through the report. This worldview is not the same as the one we are commonly accustomed to — the view that the universe comprises discrete objects, some of which are ‘conscious thinkers, feelers, and imaginers. In the Vedantic worldview, OTOH, the truth is non-dual whole and knowing is the intrinsic nature of the whole.
@sayak will remember that we had a discussion about the Chandogya Upanishad verse.
So, according to this worldview, the truth is non-dual and is of the nature of consciousness that pervades all that is known directly or through the report. Consciousness has five essential characteristics as below.
First. Consciousness, chit, is not the mind or the body. Although we feel that consciousness is a property of the body, Consciousness as per Upanishads is distinct and illumines the mind and the body and all organs within the mind. Consciousness is not a part of our body or our mind. On this point, the teaching of Vedanta is different from that of science, which says that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of bodily processes.
Second. Consciousness pervades and illumines the mind and body enabling the body-mind to function.
Third. Consciousness is not limited by the mind and body. It exists apart from the mind and body. it is not limited to this particular brain or by the body. Consciousness is not an intrinsic property of brain-body.
Fourth. Consciousness is known in the functioning of the mind and body. Through the functioning of the mind and body, we can know consciousness
Fifth. Without the mind and body, consciousness although present is not reflected, due to lack of contrast.
So? I envisage that I may get a long list of 'why it is absurd', but if the list is devoid of any inbuilt metaphysical bias, it will be welcome.
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