*the concept of a coming messiah*

[Poisonshady313]

No exile ever occurred to the Israelites unless they had offended their God. If God had been with them, no one could have cast them out of their land--even the Romans. Ever hear of miracles?

God is always with the Jews. Always.

When God told Moses His name was "I shall be as I shall be", He was basically saying "I shall be with them in this sorrow as I shall be with them in future sorrows". God is never not with the Jewish people.

And as it says in Leviticus 26:44-45

44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their God.

45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a God to them. I am the Lord.

 

[Halcyon]

It would be if it were not founded in the Scriptures. I do not claim that the idea came out of the top of my head. Besides, Isaiah himself wrote the chapters that refer to the Messiah as collective long before the Babylonian exile. Therefore, there is no possibility that he had been influenced by the idea of a future individual Saviour.

Are you talking about the suffering servant? Because that was probably written after the exile.

Furthermore, the Babylonians did not have such a concept, which was born in the Hellenistic mind of Paul about 25 years after Jesus' death. Now, if you checked the rest of the Tanach,

The Saoshyant is the original messiah figure originating in what is now called Zoroastrianism, and was present in the region of Iran/Iraq going back to the 10th century BC.
The exiled Jews may well have encountered the figure and incorporated it into their beliefs, alongside the concepts of heavenly hosts of angels, replacing the pre-exile belief in a single Angel of the Lord.

 

[Ben Masada]

Are you talking about the suffering servant? Because that was probably written after the exile.

Ben: - Yes Halcyon, that's what I am talking about. And mind you that the "Suffering
Servant" chapters in the Prophetic Literature of Isaiah was written about 60 years
before the Babylonian exile of Judah, or Messiah ben David.
The reference was to Israel the Ten Tribes, or Messiah ben Joseph.


The Saoshyant is the original messiah figure originating in what is now called Zoroastrianism, and was present in the region of Iran/Iraq going back to the 10th century BC.

+++Ben: - A few ancient civilizations or religious groups had a figure Messiah almost in the same line of the Jewish or Christian Messiah.

The exiled Jews may well have encountered the figure and incorporated it into their beliefs, alongside the concepts of heavenly hosts of angels, replacing the pre-exile belief in a single Angel of the Lord.

+++Ben: - You could be right as far as hosts of angels are concerned. But about Messiah,
the Jewish concept is pretty much original, copied by others peoples, especially Christians.

+++Ben:

 

[Charity]

The interest is mutual, Charity. Your posts never escape my eyes.

Ben :run:

Hey Benny Bear, apparently you missed one, you didn't answer my iddy biddy question.....

 

[Ben Masada]

Hey Benny Bear, apparently you missed one, you didn't answer my iddy biddy question.....

I'll look for it.

Ben:drool:

 

[Ben Masada]

Excluding all the scriptural evidence, maybe Jesus will return once we've decided to grow up and solve our own problems?

I hope you only hope that Jesus will ever return, because if you put any faith into it,
you might suffer the consequences of the disappointments of faith.

Ben:sad4:

 

[autonomous1one1]

What great crime did the Jews commit that the Romans sacked Jerusalem and exiled the Jews for two millennia? Whenever God exiled the Israelites it was always for some great sin or sins. See Deuteronomy 4:23-28; 28:63-65. If Jesus was not the Messiah, then what did the Jews do in Jerusalem?

.......The crime committed by the Jews against Rome was never to accept and recognize the Roman authority over Israel. ....

No exile ever occurred to the Israelites unless they had offended their God. If God had been with them, no one could have cast them out of their land--even the Romans. Ever hear of miracles?

Do you know something? Congratulations! You have scored high with me here because I agree with you. Ezekiel and Daniel do say that Jewish exiles are indeed caused by our offenses. ...

Greetings Ben. May it be submitted respectively that perhaps you have left an open question. Surely you are not suggesting that the Jews offended God by not acepting Roman authority?? Or, was the answer missed? :sorry1:

 

[Ben Masada]

Greetings Ben. May it be submitted respectively that perhaps you have left an open question. Surely you are not suggesting that the Jews offended God by not acepting Roman authority?? Or, was the answer missed? :sorry1:

First of all, God cannot be offended. This that we are punished because of our offenses, it's not per se against God but against ourselves and the Commonwealth.
The expression "offenses against God" is a religious jargon to makes us feel the sense of Divine belongness. The Jews were indeed non-conformists but they were way too weak
in comparison to the Romans. But of all peoples the Romans had to deal with, none caused more loss of Roman legions than the Jews.

Ben )(

 

[autonomous1one1]

First of all, God cannot be offended. This that we are punished because of our offenses, it's not per se against God but against ourselves and the Commonwealth.
The expression "offenses against God" is a religious jargon to makes us feel the sense of Divine belongness. The Jews were indeed non-conformists but they were way too week
in comparison to the Romans. But of all peoples the Romans had to deal with, none caused more loss of Roman legions than the Jews.

Ben )(

My dear Ben, thank you for responding. My remaining confusion on this issue, that is significant to me only because of its significant to you and other posters here, is not important, so there are no more questions.

 

[Ben Masada]

My dear Ben, thank you for responding. My remaining confusion on this issue, that is significant to me only because of its significant to you and other posters here, is not important, so there are no more questions.

How about the concept of a coming Messiah? Are you also satisfied that it has nothing to do with Jesus but with Israel going and returning from exiles?

Ben