The Central Paradox of All Faiths

[Bird123]

I think that you correct in so far as one should always strive to be open to learning more, that our ignorance surrounds us at every turn. But answers are certainly not there to be had when and where we need them no matter how hard we look for them unless we allow ourselves a measure of faith.

Even a lifelong effort to be objective and open wont always do it. We cannot afford to wait for certainty and objectivity in all things. I would argue that while such an attitude is commendable, it is, in the end, much more than impractical.

Beliefs are important. They patch the gap of the missing information. Without beliefs we would lock up just like my old computer when the missing information was not known. On the other hand, one should not value Beliefs over Facts. Beliefs might feel good, however beliefs are not always true. Beliefs merely point a direction by which one might search for the Real Truth. Truth is the goal and the path to true advancement.

In the end, brains win. Those who discover the real truth will advance ever forward. Advancing knowledge brings an easier life over boxing oneself in a box of beliefs.

One must keep their eyes on the prize regardless of what anyone else is choosing to do.

That's what I am seeing.

Contrary to popular belief, life isn't about feeling good even though that is the goal of so many people.

 

[sealchan]

Beliefs are important. They patch the gap of the missing information. Without beliefs we would lock up just like my old computer when the missing information was not known. On the other hand, one should not value Beliefs over Facts. Beliefs might feel good, however beliefs are not always true. Beliefs merely point a direction by which one might search for the Real Truth. Truth is the goal and the path to true advancement.

In the end, brains win. Those who discover the real truth will advance ever forward. Advancing knowledge brings an easier life over boxing oneself in a box of beliefs.

One must keep their eyes on the prize regardless of what anyone else is choosing to do.

That's what I am seeing.

Contrary to popular belief, life isn't about feeling good even though that is the goal of so many people.

I agree. Facts are more important where you can find them.

The brain loves beliefs as much as, perhaps more than, facts.

Self-care, which includes maintaining one's self-respect, sense of value and humility is often about choosing good fictions as well as recognizing important facts.

Learning requires a certain measure of safety, instinctual satisfaction and self-confidence.

 

[Bird123]

I agree. Facts are more important where you can find them.

The brain loves beliefs as much as, perhaps more than, facts.

Self-care, which includes maintaining one's self-respect, sense of value and humility is often about choosing good fictions as well as recognizing important facts.

Learning requires a certain measure of safety, instinctual satisfaction and self-confidence.

Your quote:Self-care, which includes maintaining one's self-respect, sense of value and humility is often about choosing good fictions as well as recognizing important facts.
MY ANSWER: When one Discovers the facts, the view changes. We are all Children of God. We are all wonderful works of art. There is no one in the universe exactly like each one of us, nor will there ever be. Each person is unique.

Isn't it religion that has corrupted that view and demands one is humble never to question God? Isn't it religion that labels the worth of people? If one chooses to value those beliefs instead of Discovering the Truth, one does need constant self-care.

I knew this lady who was the kindest, most loving person. She would help any and everyone she came across. I found her crying one day. Religion had convinced her she was going to Hell. She started to nit-pick about all the mistakes and bad choices she had made over her life. Was she humble? You bet! Did she have a sense of self respect and value? No way. Religion convinced her and labeled her as evil. She Believed them rather than Discover the facts.

It took a long talk to fix her. Finally, I looked her in the eyes and said: You are a good person. Long story short, Reality will always be better than Beliefs and Stories. She is much stronger today.

AS I see it. religion wants to be your crutch. They want you to depend on them. On the other hand,God wants His children standing on their own two feet.

Religion likes to label people as evil. Does this Belief help anyone? It only serves to teach hate. It leads people from the real truth.

Every single person is learning the way to perfection by Living their lessons. This is all done through our own free choices. It's pretty remarkable. Since this is a multilevel classroom, we all see people learning lessons we have already learned. Is this a reason to label someone else as evil. There are hard lessons that will be learned behind this very thing.

your quote:Learning requires a certain measure of safety, instinctual satisfaction and self-confidence.[/
MY ANSWER: Everyone will learn through their life regardless of all these things. Religion and society teach people they must be perfect or make no mistakes, yet more is learned through mistakes than almost any other thing. Do you think God wants people to make mistakes and a few bad choices? You bet!

Has religion taught people to walk on eggshells, to be afraid of upsetting God? You see,wrong beliefs are being taught and spread by people and religions every day. To believe is easier than to Discover, however in the end one will learn Reality is better than stories or beliefs. The lessons are around us all.

Religions work on people's emotions. Since they have only beliefs, that is all they can do. Let's remember God has a reason half as well. Perhaps one would do better working toward the logic rather than how it feels. It would be much easier to dismiss those beliefs rather than blindly accept them.

Well, this is how I see everything. It's pretty clear to me.

 

[sealchan]

Your quote:Self-care, which includes maintaining one's self-respect, sense of value and humility is often about choosing good fictions as well as recognizing important facts.
MY ANSWER: When one Discovers the facts, the view changes. We are all Children of God. We are all wonderful works of art. There is no one in the universe exactly like each one of us, nor will there ever be. Each person is unique.

Amen.

I'm curious, you use the phrase "Children of God"...but I expect you do not have a religious affiliation otherwise you would not categorically denounce religion.

Isn't it religion that has corrupted that view and demands one is humble never to question God? Isn't it religion that labels the worth of people? If one chooses to value those beliefs instead of Discovering the Truth, one does need constant self-care.

Do we need religion to corrupt us? How much charitable work is done in the name of religion? Are you counting only the bad and not the good? Is that rational?

Still, great evil has been done in the name of religion throughout history. I would never deny that.

I knew this lady who was the kindest, most loving person. She would help any and everyone she came across. I found her crying one day. Religion had convinced her she was going to Hell. She started to nit-pick about all the mistakes and bad choices she had made over her life. Was she humble? You bet! Did she have a sense of self respect and value? No way. Religion convinced her and labeled her as evil. She Believed them rather than Discover the facts.

It took a long talk to fix her. Finally, I looked her in the eyes and said: You are a good person. Long story short, Reality will always be better than Beliefs and Stories. She is much stronger today.

I hear ya. My wife is Christian, but her experience of church makes it so that she can't bring herself to enter one.

AS I see it. religion wants to be your crutch. They want you to depend on them. On the other hand,God wants His children standing on their own two feet.

Religion likes to label people as evil. Does this Belief help anyone? It only serves to teach hate. It leads people from the real truth.

Churches I have experienced often want you to belong and everyone seems bent on saying the right thing and looking good...or even worse judging behind or not behind people's backs. Its often not a psychologically healthy place to be sure.

But often the blame can be laid at the feet of the people not the religion. Where the political power of the church is strong then the church bares more responsibility. Where it is not, then the people are largely to blame IMO.

Every single person is learning the way to perfection by Living their lessons. This is all done through our own free choices. It's pretty remarkable. Since this is a multilevel classroom, we all see people learning lessons we have already learned. Is this a reason to label someone else as evil. There are hard lessons that will be learned behind this very thing.

I am a Christian who deeply appreciates the criticisms leveled at Christianity by Bishop Spong. He denounces a Christianity that tells you that you are a sinner and worthless.

your quote:Learning requires a certain measure of safety, instinctual satisfaction and self-confidence.[/
MY ANSWER: Everyone will learn through their life regardless of all these things. Religion and society teach people they must be perfect or make no mistakes, yet more is learned through mistakes than almost any other thing. Do you think God wants people to make mistakes and a few bad choices? You bet!

If you actually read scriptures you will find that they don't teach this. Many Christians have come away with this idea that any sin is a sign that you are despicable and as a result such Christians sin all over the place in their effort to look perfect. I think the whole judgment thing has truly been a poison to Christianity even as it has helped shape the moral attitudes of the West and beyond.

Has religion taught people to walk on eggshells, to be afraid of upsetting God? You see,wrong beliefs are being taught and spread by people and religions every day. To believe is easier than to Discover, however in the end one will learn Reality is better than stories or beliefs. The lessons are around us all.

Here is where you oversimplify the actual experience of life. Challenge yourself to break down each and every choice you make on a daily basis and determine just how many unanswered questions, uncertain truths and assumptions are required just to get through the day on a practical basis. If you are honest I think you will find that our brains continually require us to act without full rational knowledge. One would have to become a monk and live in a monastery to avoid this and even then I doubt it would be possible.

Reality is half a construction of your subjective mind. From the perception of color to the personal relationships we form in our lives, our lives are "compromised/enriched" by the incidental, unproven, arbitrary choices we have made or had made for us by circumstance, genetics or happenstance. Our own sense of value in the context of the Universe is largely self-given whether by our self to our self, by our family or by our society...or in spite of the above. Oftentimes the pitch of religion is to those who have found themselves in Hell on Earth and need something dramatic and radical to find their meaning again and work to become an asset rather than a burden.

Religions work on people's emotions. Since they have only beliefs, that is all they can do. Let's remember God has a reason half as well. Perhaps one would do better working toward the logic rather than how it feels. It would be much easier to dismiss those beliefs rather than blindly accept them.

I agree that we must use our reason and experience, treat our emotions and our logic. This is a work of balance.

Remember that just because science and technology have given us weapons which have been used to kill millions of people this does not mean we should categorically criticize science and technology. If nuclear weapons facilitate the destruction of life on this planet as we know it, should we blame science? Or is it religion that will pull the trigger?

Better, in my view, to blame ourselves and take responsibility for the unquestioned assumptions and lack of personal value we find by properly and responsibly cultivating a sense of scientific knowledge alongside a sense of evolving faith that who were are is better than what we demonstrate on a daily basis is our capacity for evil.

Well, this is how I see everything. It's pretty clear to me.[/QUOTE]

 

[Bird123]

Amen.

I'm curious, you use the phrase "Children of God"...but I expect you do not have a religious affiliation otherwise you would not categorically denounce religion.



Do we need religion to corrupt us? How much charitable work is done in the name of religion? Are you counting only the bad and not the good? Is that rational?

Still, great evil has been done in the name of religion throughout history. I would never deny that.



I hear ya. My wife is Christian, but her experience of church makes it so that she can't bring herself to enter one.



Churches I have experienced often want you to belong and everyone seems bent on saying the right thing and looking good...or even worse judging behind or not behind people's backs. Its often not a psychologically healthy place to be sure.

But often the blame can be laid at the feet of the people not the religion. Where the political power of the church is strong then the church bares more responsibility. Where it is not, then the people are largely to blame IMO.



I am a Christian who deeply appreciates the criticisms leveled at Christianity by Bishop Spong. He denounces a Christianity that tells you that you are a sinner and worthless.



If you actually read scriptures you will find that they don't teach this. Many Christians have come away with this idea that any sin is a sign that you are despicable and as a result such Christians sin all over the place in their effort to look perfect. I think the whole judgment thing has truly been a poison to Christianity even as it has helped shape the moral attitudes of the West and beyond.



Here is where you oversimplify the actual experience of life. Challenge yourself to break down each and every choice you make on a daily basis and determine just how many unanswered questions, uncertain truths and assumptions are required just to get through the day on a practical basis. If you are honest I think you will find that our brains continually require us to act without full rational knowledge. One would have to become a monk and live in a monastery to avoid this and even then I doubt it would be possible.

Reality is half a construction of your subjective mind. From the perception of color to the personal relationships we form in our lives, our lives are "compromised/enriched" by the incidental, unproven, arbitrary choices we have made or had made for us by circumstance, genetics or happenstance. Our own sense of value in the context of the Universe is largely self-given whether by our self to our self, by our family or by our society...or in spite of the above. Oftentimes the pitch of religion is to those who have found themselves in Hell on Earth and need something dramatic and radical to find their meaning again and work to become an asset rather than a burden.



I agree that we must use our reason and experience, treat our emotions and our logic. This is a work of balance.

Remember that just because science and technology have given us weapons which have been used to kill millions of people this does not mean we should categorically criticize science and technology. If nuclear weapons facilitate the destruction of life on this planet as we know it, should we blame science? Or is it religion that will pull the trigger?

Better, in my view, to blame ourselves and take responsibility for the unquestioned assumptions and lack of personal value we find by properly and responsibly cultivating a sense of scientific knowledge alongside a sense of evolving faith that who were are is better than what we demonstrate on a daily basis is our capacity for evil.

Well, this is how I see everything. It's pretty clear to me.

[/QUOTE]



I was raised christian, however when I became an adult, i realized so much of it did not add up. This is the point at which I wanted to know the real truth regardless of what that truth might be. My journey to Discovery started.

One can understand a person through their actions. In this time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. They can not be altered. As I see it, this is the surest path to understanding God.

I say we are all God's children because we are. Does a condemning God really make sense. Would it be intelligent?

Religions do teach lots of good things. On the other hand, they also teach all the petty things mankind holds so dear like hating,blaming, judging, condemning, punishing, coercing, intimidating, controlling, manipulating and such. They can create a we against they which classes some over others. God is above these petty things.

Religion does teach good things but what else do they teach? Holy Books are OK, if you see them for what they are. They are a creation of mankind and that is what they reflect.

Yes, I can be direct and to the point. I could probably write novels. I understand the human factor has an almost unlimited number of variables, that's what make's God's system so remarkable.