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The Big Bang Theory is dead.

McBell

McBell

mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
YoursTrue said:
By what criteria are you accepting it? Aside from the position that it was fused, what ape did it come from? One or two apes? Gorillas still remain gorillas, chimps remain chimps. Guess the fusion isn't happening lately. Because--they say--it happened sooo many years ago -- someone, somewhere had their chromosomes fused. (wow and yikes.)
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All of that and you still forgot to answer the questions:

How do you know?​
By what criteria are you rejecting it​
 
Dan From Smithville

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
McBell said:
Is it that you are no longer related or is it you do not actually exist?
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You may be onto something. I have been feeling a little light lately. Maybe I don't exist and I blame that entire group of 75X Great Grandparents. Lazy buggers didn't even leave video. No video, no ancestry.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Polymath257 said:
Exactly how did he flub it? It looks to me like he explained it very well in a way that is irrefutable.

It shows humans and chimps have a common ancestor and that two chromosomes merged. It even shows exactly where they merged.
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I can't find the video again, perhapsyou can post it again? Because although I heard the lecturer's reason for thinking the chromosome must have fused, it appears to be only his suggestion as to how it could have happened.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
McBell said:
All of that and you still forgot to answer the questions:

How do you know?​
By what criteria are you rejecting it​
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You asked me how do I know? How do I know what? Since some say that's how it happened that humans developed 46 pairs of chromosomes from fusion instead of 48 like gorillas have and I ask questions about that, do you think that means I am rejecting it?
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
YoursTrue said:
@Polymath257 you said, Gorillas are supposed to have come from that "Unknown Common Ancestor" as well as -- humans, chimps, orangutans. That ancestor, however, has not been found.
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So do you think this is the way it definitely came about that humans developed from one or two ancestors that were or were not gorillas, chimps, or orangutans but their Common Ancestor, as yet still unknown? Shouldn't be a hard question to answer as to what you think. I am questioning it and if someone were to ask me about if I believed that, I'd probably shrug my shoulders and say -- we really don't know and we also have no evidence for it, but that's what some people think as to why humans have 46 pairs of chromosomes but gorillas, orangutans and chimps have 48. Also -- why humans developed brains that can figure how to read, write, and figure geometry, but gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans do not. See, because humans have 46 pairs while the others have 48.
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
YoursTrue said:
I saw the lecturer make that point. What evidence is there, however. Is the evidence that humans have 46 pairs while gorillas have 48?
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I'm genuinely shocked that you watched the video and are still asking questions like this. Did you just not pay attention to it?

Simple summary: humans have one fewer pair of chromosomes than other great apes, so evolution tells us that if we had a common ancestor then two must have fused. This is a prediction of the theory. If this hadn't happened evolution would be wrong. We now have the full genome sequences so we can check. Chromosomes have identifiable sequences at each end, so we can look for the fusion site. We found it, so the test of evolution and a common ancestor was passed.

There is also no other reason why we should see a fusion between between chromosomes. Why would a designer do such a thing (unless it was out to deceive us)? Hence we have evidence of a common ancestor. This is just one tiny part of the genetic evidence we have for common descent.

YoursTrue said:
So do you think this is the way it definitely came about that humans developed from one or two ancestors that were or were not gorillas, chimps, or orangutans but their Common Ancestor, as yet still unknown? Shouldn't be a hard question to answer as to what you think. I am questioning it and if someone were to ask me about if I believed that, I'd probably shrug my shoulders and say -- we really don't know and we also have no evidence for it, but that's what some people think as to why humans have 46 pairs of chromosomes but gorillas, orangutans and chimps have 48. Also -- why humans developed brains that can figure how to read, write, and figure geometry, but gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans do not. See, because humans have 46 pairs while the others have 48.
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As others have pointed out, it is perfectly possible to have evidence for a common ancestor without identifying that ancestor. The genetic evidence (including the fused chromosomes) is absolutely conclusive. We can tell that two people are related using DNA evidence even if their 'common ancestor' is not in the picture for whatever reason.

Identifying a particular organism as the common ancestor is a ridiculous red herring.
 
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