TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
If I'm not understanding correctly, then perhaps you should explain it more clearly
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The Bible's God and Satan. Which one is more evil?
- Thread starter Pudding
- Start date
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"just" / "justice" is an english word and it means what it means.
Simple question: in your christian religion, is it possible for a person to NOT be a christian believer while knowing about christianity AND still go to heaven?
That is patently false.
Patently absurd and morally bankrupt.
Morally bankrupt. Selective morals at best.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
In my version, there are no special moral agents that are exempt from it.
Clearly....
The words "lovingly" and "right" are completely meaningless if you put this god above all moral rules and judgements and completely exempt from anything and everything.
You argued yourself into a corner where anything this god supposedly does or allows is moral by defintion. So if this god orders the gangrape of a 7-year old girl, then it is moral to do so.
To call that a moral or just or loving being, is ridiculous and meaningless
Luckily, I have not said so.
Bible tells eternal life is for righteous.
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
Christian is not the same as righteous. And knowing Christianity doesn’t necessarily make one righteous. But I believe rejecting the truth shows person is not righteous. Righteous person is truthful.
A righteous man hates lies…
Pro. 13:5
Please show the scripture in the Bible that tells that we are allowed to sell people?
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Have you ever read the wikipedia article on the Bible and slavery? It's mostly OT stuff, but you will find all sorts of rules on how to buy slaves, how to treat them, how much you should pay for them, how to enslave people who are in debt to you (and when you must release them, though how you can keep them in servitude forever), how you can sell your daughters to become a concubine, forced her into marriage or simply as a sex slave. You will also find verses about what to do wih escaped slaves.
In the NT, slavery is mentionned a few time with Saint Paul calling basically for slave to obey their masters in all things and the masters to be fair, kind and just toward their slaves (pretty similar to what he asked of wives and husbands respectively come to think of it). Though Saint Paul did encourage at least one guy to free his escaped slave after he return him to his master (that passage became really important in the US during the debate over the abolition of slavery being used as a moral justification on both sides). Jesus himself seem to have been lukewarm to the concept of slavery saying that slave would be amongst the "first to enter heaven", but that would be in line with his views on the poor, the children and the handicaped people.
Anyway, take a look.There is ample references from both scholar works and biblical passages.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So, if this god orders the gangrape of a 7-year old, then it's NOT moral to do so?
The moral thing would be to disobbey this god?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
You completely dodged the question.
I asked you a yes/no question. Neither "yes" or "no" are words used in your post.
Please answer the question:
Is it possible for a non-christian to go to heaven?
Exodus 21:7 talks about a man selling his daughter into slavery.
I don’t think that is about a Jew selling daughter, because selling is forbidden for them:
Anyone who kidnaps someone and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
Ex. 21:16
For they are my servants, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt. They shall not be sold as slaves.
Lev. 25:42
I think it would not be right to do that.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Then your morality necessarily comes from somewhere else then whatever your god commands.
I think my morality came from the Bible and so from God. From it I have understood what is good and right. And in the Bible, the law is fulfilled by this:
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10
I asked a scripture that tells that God allows people to sell other people. Scripture that tells that some sell people is not same as that God allows or commands it.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
That directly contradicts what you said earlier.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Which is what I gave you.
Rules regulating a dude selling his daughter as a slave, is an example of god allowing people to sell other people.
So you are saying that the god of the bible doesn't agree with the rules laid out in the bible?
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Jesus says thou shalt not kill... The 10 say the same.
Whoever wrote the part about killing everything that breathes must not have gotten the memo. Or the one that says don't covet your neighbor's land of Canaan. Didn't "those of old" preface their genocide with "thus saith the lord"?
John.8:44 "Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
In other words, they worshipped a god who was not Jesus' Heavenly Father.
John.12:48-50 "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak."
____________
Some say that the word "Israelite" should be replaced with the word "Egyptian" when it comes to the world-reknowned Conquest of Canaan. Some say that the Persian Conquest of Canaan was predicated upon a few mistaken who's whos.
It doesn’t tell Jews were allowed to sell anyone. It speaks of a person who sells his daughter. And because the person is selling, he obviously was not a Jew, because Jews were not allowed to do so.
Please explain how?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Again, it doesn't matter. You're moving the goalposts.
You asked for "an example of god allowing people to sell people". You didn't specify any conditions or qualifiers or whatever.
I gave you an example, one that you can verify yourself easily. The decent thing to do is to acknowledge it instead of trying to make up excuses by invoking extra requirements that weren't part of your initial inquiry.
Next to that, the bible also clearly instructs and details which slaves they can BUY from whom.
When you can BUY something, it implies that someone else is SELLING it.
When you are allowed to BUY x, then it necessarily follows that it is also allowed to SELL x.
Can't have one without the other.
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