The Bible's God and Satan. Which one is more evil?

[Sand Dancer]

Bible tells God kills, or death is for evil/violent/unrighteous people.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

God is the one who has given life, so I think He has the right to decide how long it lasts. And because He gives eternal life for those who are righteous, I think there is nothing wrong. I don’t think there is any good reason to allow evil to continue forever. And actually, I don’t think God would have responsibility to give eternal life even for righteous.

People don’t give life, people only multiply/procreate. If human thinks he can give life, I welcome him to grave yard to demonstrate his abilities and give life to the dead.

That man fertilizes ovum is not giving life, when the cells already has life on its own, because body is designed to produce living cells.

Only God can give life and that gives Him the right also to decide how long life He gives. And I think there is nothing to complain, we have done nothing why we would deserve more than what God gives.

What a lovely god not to let someone be able to REPENT. Ugh. Yahweh sucks as a deity.

 

[1213]

What a lovely god not to let someone be able to REPENT.

I think all are able to repent, many just don’t want to, they love more evil than good.

 

[1213]

Wouldn't that make your god neither good nor bad since he doesn't have any sort of moral responsibility or standard to keep?

Good and bad seems to be just subjective opinions. I have understood God has chosen to love, to be just and honest. Those things make Him good in my eyes. But obviously people who for example hate the truth can think God is evil.

I don’t think that how long life God gives is really any moral problem or about good and bad. And I think moral is very much about what are the rights. If person has right for something, then it is ok, if person doesn’t have right, then it is not ok. I don’t know why God would not have right to give life with limit. And I think giving life with limit is not bad.

 

[MonkeyFire]

God doesn't have to save you... you suffer because your bigoted/ignorant over your own anger... your own feelings are a result of your own actions... they can only hurt you if you choose to suffer...

 

[epronovost]

Good and bad seems to be just subjective opinions. I have understood God has chosen to love, to be just and honest.

If your deity can be described as "honest" and "just" it implies he/she/it/they (what pronoun am I suppose to use to refer to your deity btw?) are beholden to some sort of standard of truth and a certain code of conduct he/she/it/they must follow. In other word, there is a standard by which we can judge your deity's morality fairly objectively.

 

[epronovost]

God doesn't have to save you... you suffer because your bigoted/ignorant over anger... your own feelings are a result of your own actions...

How do you deal with the problem of responsability? (AKA "with great power comes great responsabilities")

 

[MonkeyFire]

How do you deal with the problem of responsability? (AKA "with great power comes great responsabilities")

Hippies deny responsibilities, for responsible behavior.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I think all are able to repent, many just don’t want to, they love more evil than good.

I don't think Uzzah loved evil...

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Satan resides in the flesh of every man.

Jesus was a man.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Satan has killed every person ever born and all those who are still yet to be born. Satan resides in the flesh of every man. And he resided in the flesh of Adam. And when Adam sinned, death has passed to all humans. Therefore, Satan is charged with killing everyone.

This makes zero sense on so many levels.

First, you are using a rather bizar definition of "to kill" here. To the point that I don't even know what you are talking about.

Secondly, if satan is to blame for adam's sin, then it makes even less sense to punish humans for it. "even less", because punishing adam's children for adam's crimes is already deeply immoral to begin with.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Bible tells God kills, or death is for evil/violent/unrighteous people.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

God is the one who has given life, so I think He has the right to decide how long it lasts. And because He gives eternal life for those who are righteous, I think there is nothing wrong. I don’t think there is any good reason to allow evil to continue forever. And actually, I don’t think God would have responsibility to give eternal life even for righteous.

People don’t give life, people only multiply/procreate. If human thinks he can give life, I welcome him to grave yard to demonstrate his abilities and give life to the dead.

That man fertilizes ovum is not giving life, when the cells already has life on its own, because body is designed to produce living cells.

Only God can give life and that gives Him the right also to decide how long life He gives. And I think there is nothing to complain, we have done nothing why we would deserve more than what God gives.

I think it's rather funny that the argument you present to justify the claim that god is moral, is an argument that basically states that morality simply doesn't apply to this god.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Good and bad seems to be just subjective opinions. I have understood God has chosen to love, to be just and honest.

"just" would be to judge people based on their behaviour and how they treat others, instead of based on what they merely believe.

Also, where's the "love" when he regulates and condones slavery, or orders massive infanticide?

Those things make Him good in my eyes

And you just shut your eyes to all the horrible bits?

But obviously people who for example hate the truth can think God is evil.

It seems that the opposite is also true: that people who hate the truth can think god is good.

I don’t think that how long life God gives is really any moral problem or about good and bad.
And I think moral is very much about what are the rights. If person has right for something, then it is ok, if person doesn’t have right, then it is not ok. I don’t know why God would not have right to give life with limit. And I think giving life with limit is not bad.

And I think that this little game of mainstream chirstian theology which seems to only serve to stroke his own ego, is a very evil and immoral game indeed.

Thank goodness it's not true. ;-)

 

[1213]

"just" would be to judge people based on their behaviour and how they treat others, instead of based on what they merely believe.

I think you really have not understood what the Bible teaches. According to the Bible, eternal life is for righteous. It is more than believing something. It is also more than doing some nice acts.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

If person is righteous, it will be seen also in his actions, but actions are only a result, not the cause.

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

And it is possible to count one righteous, even if he has not heard of Jesus or God, because:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

Works are important, but the are only a result of mind. If mind is righteous, the works will also be righteous. More important than works is the mind. If person has righteous mind, then he gets eternal life as a gift. And I believe that is so, because righteous person knows how to live well, truthfully and loves other people.

Also, where's the "love" when he regulates and condones slavery, or orders massive infanticide?

God tells we are not allowed to sell anyone. Buying is allowed and I think it is good, if person obeys all God’s rules. If some nation is so evil that it sells own people, I think it is better, if Jews buy them.

If God kills, I think it is acceptable, because He has given life. He has right to decide how long life He gives and so He is not murderer (murder = unlawful killing). Also, in Biblical point of view this “life” is only short lesson about good and evil that is not even meat to last forever. Soul is the important thing and the death of a body is not the end of soul. If God kills someone’s body, it is possible that the person still lives and is with God. In Biblical point of view, we should not worry about body.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

If innocent and righteous person dies, he gets eternal life, according to the Bible. And if person is not righteous, it is better that he doesn’t live eternally.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[1213]

I think it's rather funny that the argument you present to justify the claim that god is moral, is an argument that basically states that morality simply doesn't apply to this god.

It depends how you define “morality”. I think it is meaningless word at the moment. That is why I think it would be better to speak of what is right and why. God has rights and He acts lovingly, that is why I think He is good.

 

[1213]

If your deity can be described as "honest" and "just" it implies he/she/it/they (what pronoun am I suppose to use to refer to your deity btw?) are beholden to some sort of standard of truth and a certain code of conduct he/she/it/they must follow. In other word, there is a standard by which we can judge your deity's morality fairly objectively.

Yes, I think you are correct. In Biblical point of view God (He) is righteous, just, truthful and loving. If God acts so it can be said He has good moral.

 

[74x12]

Regardless whether the Bible's God and Satan exist or not, regardless whether the Bible's stories are fact or not, by looking at all the Bible's stories...

The Bible's God and Satan. Which one of them is more evil?

(I might not be participate in this discussion, so please feel free to discuss/debate with other people here.)

Impossible for God to be evil. Impossible also for anyone to be good who is against God. God is love and light. There is no wisdom or understanding outside of God. If we have anything good at all; then God gave it.

 

[LightofTruth]

This makes zero sense on so many levels.

First, you are using a rather bizar definition of "to kill" here. To the point that I don't even know what you are talking about.

Secondly, if satan is to blame for adam's sin, then it makes even less sense to punish humans for it. "even less", because punishing adam's children for adam's crimes is already deeply immoral to begin with.

Obviously you are clueless as to who satan is.

 

[epronovost]

Impossible for God to be evil. Impossible also for anyone to be good who is against God. God is love and light. There is no wisdom or understanding outside of God. If we have anything good at all; then God gave it.

Are you sure you want to commit to that sort of definition? It basically state that "good" or "bad" isn't a judgement, something that can be reasonned and explained, but an intrinsic characteristic based on God's behavior. God isn't good because he does good things, but anything God does is declared good and if you or anything else was to be declared good it would have to match what God does. If God eats a sandwich, eating sandwiches becomes good. If God saves little children from drowning, saving little children from drowning becomes good. If God massacres an entire city worth of people, men, women and children and spares only virgin teenage girls to be sold into sex slavery, then wholesale massacres and sex slavery for virgin teenage girls is good. The reason I ask if you truly want to commit to such a definition is that if God's behavior is inconsistent or arbitrary (or appears like if it was to our eyes) it would make the morality of an action bascially impossible to assess. A God that "works in mysterious ways" would be a terrible model for morality for nobody truly understand what he does, why or can even detect with a reasonnable amount of certainty a pattern of behavior to follow.

 

[74x12]

Are you sure you want to commit to that sort of definition? It basically state that "good" or "bad" isn't a judgement, something that can be reasonned and explained, but an intrinsic characteristic based on God's behavior. God isn't good because he does good things, but anything God does is declared good and if you or anything else was to be declared good it would have to match what God does. If God eats a sandwich, eating sandwiches becomes good. If God saves little children from drowning, saving little children from drowning becomes good. If God massacres an entire city worth of people, men, women and children and spares only virgin teenage girls to be sold into sex slavery, then wholesale massacres and sex slavery for virgin teenage girls is good. The reason I ask if you truly want to commit to such a definition is that if God's behavior is inconsistent or arbitrary (or appears like if it was to our eyes) it would make the morality of an action bascially impossible to assess. A God that "works in mysterious ways" would be a terrible model for morality for nobody truly understand what he does, why or can even detect with a reasonnable amount of certainty a pattern of behavior to follow.

I'm of the opinion that it's not logical for an atheist/agnostic to say God is not moral somehow. Because logically since an atheist has no higher power to appeal to and an agnostic doesn't know of any higher power; therefore their since of morality has to come from their own opinion. It can't logically be anything more than that. Otherwise they must admit that some greater moral system exists rather than one that has just sprung up from the natural process of evolution. IE cooperation and feelings of empathy as survival mechanisms for the herd/group. Which granted benefit the species; but are (ultimately) nothing more than that.

So from my point of view; Divine nature must have so much more of an advanced sense of morality compared to a mere human that the two cannot be compared. I would say that you might as well compare the intelligence of a micro-organism with that of a human being. Therefore since if a God exists as described in the Bible; then He must be so much more intelligent and advanced morally that a human being has no right or logical reason to question His morality on any basis whatsoever.

I think this dispute must first be resolved before we could even move on to questions of specific actions alleged to have been committed by a Divine nature.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

. God isn't good because he does good things, but anything God does is declared good and if you or anything else was to be declared good it would have to match what God does.

So a question that might be asked, is does god define good and evil or does he work within objective definitions that can't be altered. And if he defines what is good, is it then objectively good anyway. Plenty of people have probably chewed away on all that I'm sure