The Bible and Economics?

[CG Didymus]

What should a Biblical economic system look like? What did the economy look like in ancient Israel and Judah? Since the early Christians shared all things in common, what happened? Did that not work? Or, since they were expecting Christ to come back soon, did they not care about the economy?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The Barter system I'm guessing

 

[Sha'irullah]

A mixture of common local trade and international exportation of goods to the current empires at that time.

 

[fallingblood]

What should a Biblical economic system look like? What did the economy look like in ancient Israel and Judah? Since the early Christians shared all things in common, what happened? Did that not work? Or, since they were expecting Christ to come back soon, did they not care about the economy?

If we are talking specifically about the economic system that was in play during the various time periods in which the Bible covers, then there are many different economic systems that were in play. The one I'm most familiar with is the patron-client system, which was an asymmetrical relationship in which the patron needed the client much more than the client needed the patron. One can see similar types of relationships in different First Nation groups in the Pacific Northwest.

However, if we are looking at an economic system based off of theological ideas that are placed within the Bible, one can still get many ideas, but they can be better suited for various groups. There are actually theologians who do exactly this.

Personally, I think a decent economic system could be put into place. There would definitely be a welfare type of system involved, as that is something that is seen throughout the Bible.

 

[outhouse]

What should a Biblical economic system look like? What did the economy look like in ancient Israel and Judah? Since the early Christians shared all things in common, what happened? Did that not work? Or, since they were expecting Christ to come back soon, did they not care about the economy?

Your asking for as book

Who? Where? When? would you like to discuss?

The socioeconomics of the first century gives are greatest insight to reconstruction a historical Jesus.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

What should a Biblical economic system look like?

Biblical.

 

[Pegg]

What should a Biblical economic system look like? What did the economy look like in ancient Israel and Judah? Since the early Christians shared all things in common, what happened? Did that not work? Or, since they were expecting Christ to come back soon, did they not care about the economy?

the christians, like the jews, like Jesus all lived under the monetary system of the roman empire. It is pretty much the same type of monetary system that we live under today... you work to earn a currency endorsed by the government, and you use that currency to buy goods and services.

But i believe that in a world under the Messiah, we will work on a barter system. Sharing what we have among all and working together as one toward a common goal. We certainly wont be living by a currency system....Gods kingdom has no use of little pieces of metal and paper notes.

 

[fallingblood]

I just would like to point out that the Bible contains more than just Christianity. What may have been true for the Palestine under Roman occupation is not the same as what was true for Palestine under Hebrew occupation, Persian occupation, etc.

 

[Pappillion001]

the christians, like the jews, like Jesus all lived under the monetary system of the roman empire. It is pretty much the same type of monetary system that we live under today... you work to earn a currency endorsed by the government, and you use that currency to buy goods and services.

But i believe that in a world under the Messiah, we will work on a barter system. Sharing what we have among all and working together as one toward a common goal. We certainly wont be living by a currency system....Gods kingdom has no use of little pieces of metal and paper notes.

Lets see how much you dislike those coins and paper when you have to collect 40 cows and then take them to buy a house or try and put a chicken in a vending machine.

 

[Pegg]

Lets see how much you dislike those coins and paper when you have to collect 40 cows and then take them to buy a house or try and put a chicken in a vending machine.

who says anyone will have to 'buy' anything?

Nobody owns the land, so nobody will have to 'buy' land to build a house. Nobody owns the trees, so nobody will have to 'buy' the wood that comes from the trees

The resources belong to God, and he gives them freely to mankind.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think that a "Biblical" economic system would be communistic and theocratic: no individual ownership of property, with economic decisions either being controlled by the religious leaders of the community under the pretext that they were being led by God, or by the entire community in some sort of prayer-based decision-making system like Quaker "meetings for business": instead of debating over a decision, the congregation prays for guidance. If they feel that they can't properly discern God's will on the item through their prayers, it gets tabled until the next meeting when they try again.

the christians, like the jews, like Jesus all lived under the monetary system of the roman empire. It is pretty much the same type of monetary system that we live under today... you work to earn a currency endorsed by the government, and you use that currency to buy goods and services.

But i believe that in a world under the Messiah, we will work on a barter system. Sharing what we have among all and working together as one toward a common goal. We certainly wont be living by a currency system....Gods kingdom has no use of little pieces of metal and paper notes.

Shared ownership of property and the question of currency vs. barter are really two separate issues.

 

[outhouse]

I think that a "Biblical" economic system would be communistic and theocratic: no individual ownership of property, with economic decisions either being controlled by the religious leaders of the community under the pretext that they were being led by God, or by the entire community in some sort of prayer-based decision-making system like Quaker "meetings for business": instead of debating over a decision, the congregation prays for guidance. If they feel that they can't properly discern God's will on the item through their prayers, it gets tabled until the next meeting when they try again.

.

I can tell you for Galileans life would have been a nightmare. Rural peasant villages were pretty rough. Recent digs in Capernaum which was thought to be a wealthy city has recently turned out to be poor. This would also mirror Nazareth.

I view Nazareth as what amounts to a hovel and a work camp for the rebuilding of Sepphoris where the Jewish peasant population lived, which was opposite from the Hellenistic Jews that ended up inhabiting Sepphoris


It was a mixed bag, and only a few miles separated you from different lifestyles.

 

[Pappillion001]

who says anyone will have to 'buy' anything?

Nobody owns the land, so nobody will have to 'buy' land to build a house. Nobody owns the trees, so nobody will have to 'buy' the wood that comes from the trees

The resources belong to God, and he gives them freely to mankind.

Umm you did when you said it would be a barter system. Now you are turning Heaven from a Marxist system to a welfare state.

Assuming it is just a nicer version of what we already have, never mind digging into socio economic relationships in Heaven just lost any appeal as I quickly ran through some of what would be involved

 

[CG Didymus]

who says anyone will have to 'buy' anything?

Nobody owns the land, so nobody will have to 'buy' land to build a house. Nobody owns the trees, so nobody will have to 'buy' the wood that comes from the trees

The resources belong to God, and he gives them freely to mankind.

This is kind of what I'm getting at. In real life somebody does own the land and the resources and we charge each other as much as we can get for them. How did the Bible tell the Jews how to conduct business? I know there's a few verses that talk about not charging interest to "brothers" and to tithe, and not till harvest the whole field but to leave a little for the poor to "glean" from. And, if any thing, the NT points to a "sharing everything" model. But in reality, economics seems to follow an evolution more than the Bible. It allows the survival of the fittest and the survival of the one that can exploit others best.

What bothers me is that right-wing conservative Christians seem to act as if capitalism is Biblical. I can see how it would work very well if everyone lived a moral and ethical life, but even some Christian leader have exploited the system for riches. I guess even in Luther's time the church exploited people for wealth. So is there a Biblical economic model that Christians should at least consider? Or, is it too vague to pin-point any? Which, again, means does the Bible really have all the answers?

 

[fallingblood]

This is kind of what I'm getting at. In real life somebody does own the land and the resources and we charge each other as much as we can get for them. How did the Bible tell the Jews how to conduct business? I know there's a few verses that talk about not charging interest to "brothers" and to tithe, and not till harvest the whole field but to leave a little for the poor to "glean" from. And, if any thing, the NT points to a "sharing everything" model. But in reality, economics seems to follow an evolution more than the Bible. It allows the survival of the fittest and the survival of the one that can exploit others best.

What bothers me is that right-wing conservative Christians seem to act as if capitalism is Biblical. I can see how it would work very well if everyone lived a moral and ethical life, but even some Christian leader have exploited the system for riches. I guess even in Luther's time the church exploited people for wealth. So is there a Biblical economic model that Christians should at least consider? Or, is it too vague to pin-point any? Which, again, means does the Bible really have all the answers?

The problem that I am seeing in your response, and many here, is that they ignore that there is no one "Biblical" economy. But in fact, the economic systems within the Bible did evolve. Can capitalism be seen in the Bible? Yes it can, or at least some capitalist ideas. Many people in the Bible also exploited the system for riches. It is much more complicated then most are trying to portray it as.

 

[CG Didymus]

The problem that I am seeing in your response, and many here, is that they ignore that there is no one "Biblical" economy.

That's the thing. Why isn't there a clear this is how God told us to do it answer? God did intend for the Jews to be a successful nation didn't he? For Christians, who knows? The thing about the anti-christ and beast making everyone have the "mark" in order to buy and sell makes it sound like the economy is going to be left to them to run. So for 2000 years, what has been going on? People, nations, religions have all been evolving. Jesus has been coming soon to take us away and fix everything for a long time now. Or, are we missing something, and we are supposed to take Bible principles and build something out of all this mess?

 

[fallingblood]

That's the thing. Why isn't there a clear this is how God told us to do it answer? God did intend for the Jews to be a successful nation didn't he? For Christians, who knows? The thing about the anti-christ and beast making everyone have the "mark" in order to buy and sell makes it sound like the economy is going to be left to them to run. So for 2000 years, what has been going on? People, nations, religions have all been evolving. Jesus has been coming soon to take us away and fix everything for a long time now. Or, are we missing something, and we are supposed to take Bible principles and build something out of all this mess?

If we assume that the Bible is the direct word of God, then it could be that God is intelligent enough to know that what may have worked 2000 or more years ago wouldn't work today. That is why many people who accept the Bible as the direct word of God also accept that God still gives revelations.

There is also the option that one can look at the Bible as one would look at a philosophy text. One can learn quite a bit by reading about the ideas within the Bible, and then apply them to situations today.

Or, one can realize that the Bible is not an economic book, and thus not try to use it as such.

 

[outhouse]

That's the thing. Why isn't there a clear this is how God told us to do it answer? .

Because the book doesnt give a lecture on modern economics.

Would you use the bible as a modern biology book?

Would you use the bible as a history book?

 

[CG Didymus]

If we assume that the Bible is the direct word of God, then it could be that God is intelligent enough to know that what may have worked 2000 or more years ago wouldn't work today. That is why many people who accept the Bible as the direct word of God also accept that God still gives revelations.

There is also the option that one can look at the Bible as one would look at a philosophy text. One can learn quite a bit by reading about the ideas within the Bible, and then apply them to situations today.

Or, one can realize that the Bible is not an economic book, and thus not try to use it as such.

I agree with everything you and Outhouse have said. I understand why Christian Fundamentalists want to make it the one and only answer book, but it's not working out to be a very good one. It's not an economic book and it is especially not a biology book. I think you were the one that said you are on the liberal side of Christianity. That does work for me, because it allows us to build off of ideas and failures. I was hoping to hear some input on why usury wasn't allowed amongst the Jews. Today, interest on money has created a situation where people, businesses and countries are all in debt and are economic slaves to some kind of beast power. We already can't buy or sell without playing the game.

 

[fallingblood]

I agree with everything you and Outhouse have said. I understand why Christian Fundamentalists want to make it the one and only answer book, but it's not working out to be a very good one. It's not an economic book and it is especially not a biology book. I think you were the one that said you are on the liberal side of Christianity. That does work for me, because it allows us to build off of ideas and failures. I was hoping to hear some input on why usury wasn't allowed amongst the Jews. Today, interest on money has created a situation where people, businesses and countries are all in debt and are economic slaves to some kind of beast power. We already can't buy or sell without playing the game.

Usury was allowed among Jews. However, it wasn't allow among fellow Jews. But for others, it was no problem (except for the poor). From my understanding (and I could be wrong here, it's been awhile since I went over this) it was in order to build the Hebrews up. It was a way to build a strong bond among the nation.