The Bahai interpretation of Jesus, the crucifixion, and him in the Qur'an

[TransmutingSoul]

Not unless you twist it around so much that every piece of text is unrecognisable.

This is important Firedragon, I awoke this morning with a thought about this OP, I was even contemplating a new OP with it as the subject matter.

Before I offer that I will offer that history shows that the Jews would say the Christian has twisted the Torah and the Christains have said the Muslims twisted the Bible, so what you offer is an age old Negation, which has always preceded belief, and Affirmation. Just like the invocation used in Islam, that there is no God (negation), but God (affirmation) is still used.

Baha'u'llah came to remove the Negation for all time. So that brings us to the logical stance a Baha'i takes in offering thoughts on the Quran.

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah won over to the Faith the most learned Islam divines in their day, the list is long and of the highest quality. The Shah sent the most learned and respected of the Divines to sort out the issue of Truth with Baha'u'llah. This divine had memorised apart from the Qur'an, well over 30,000 traditions. He had 3 interviews with Baha'u'llah and it is a wonderful story told by his own pen to read. He became a devout filler of Baha'u'llah and was given the bounty of martyrdom. As were many hundreds of other very learned Divines who also embraced the Message given by Baha'u'llah

So when a Baha'i reads this history, knowing that the most learned Divines were not able to better the knowledge of the Quran and the Traditions, that Baha'u'llah was able to expound upon, then us not being scholars, can appreciate what Baha'u'llah offered can not have a point of negation with the Quran. The best tried and failed, and either embraced the Message of Baha'u'llah or tried to silence both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

It is that simple, Faith has shown us that the Word given by God is a path to One Truth, Allah.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The problem with this is, with all due respect, I see a lot of Bahai's claim they have studied all the scriptures but have not even read them. Also, trying to reconcile everything what Abdul Baha has directly done is cherry pick what he thought can be reconciled, and made everything else an illusion or an allegory. The audience is pretty uneducated in any of these scriptures and are trying their best to show they are highly educated and even speak of "Bahai scholarship of the Bible" and things like that though when you follow through, it is not scholarship, it is apologetics and evangelism.

I personally see this was not the age of scholarship, it was a formation age where Allah grants the joining of hearts and those hearts are attracted by the reconciliation of the logical aspects of scriptures. Though many great scholars did join the Faith and have left to prosperity their writings as well.

I do see you valid point, scholarship is to be appreciated and embraced in the Baha'i Writings, but consider many Baha'i have not come from a background of Scholars and in history, If we are to be fair, history has shown that all past faiths have not been built by the learned of the age, but by those that gave their heart to a Messenger and built a new world order with new eyes and new ears.

My previous post offers why a Baha'i does not need to be a scholar of other faiths, at this time (it would be good if we were), as we are here to lay the foundations of a new World Order, a new way of interacting with each other under our One God, with the virtue and morals that attracted us to a Message from God suited and needed in this day.

The future will produce many learned scholars when tine can be devoted to this.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

You are projecting your views and applying them to me, which is an an attempt to twist what I offered you firedragon.

You were answering for someone else. So with all due respect, your put yourself in the same band.

"In the religion of Islam, similarly, not every ordinance was explicitly revealed; nay not a tenth part of a tenth part was included in the Text; although all matters of major importance were specifically referred to, there were undoubtedly thousands of laws which were unspecified. These were devised by the divines of a later age according to the laws of Islamic jurisprudence, and individual divines made conflicting deductions from the original revealed ordinances." Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 5

Regards Tony

So you're Tony. Changed the Avatar name? I still prefer your old name.

So it can be offered that luckily we now have another Messenger from God who cleared up these minor matters of Faith, so we can become One in Allah. We can practice this advice I share with you again.

“And hold you fast to God’s bond, together, and be not disunited; remember God’s favor upon you when you were enemies, and He brought your hearts together, so that by His blessing you became brothers.” (Qur’an 3:103)

As brothers we do not always have to agree.

Regards Tony

I was speaking specifically about a. specific matter Tony.

 

[Muffled]

So they are correct because you believe. Which means "because you say so".

Nah. Invalid argument.

I believe I do not believe things without evidence. Anyone who knows me knows that I always speak the truth.

 

[Muffled]

Which we know from the bible.

I believe I didn't really know Him from the Bible. I knew a few things about Him. I have found knowing Him to be better than knowing the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

"Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it." 1 Corinthians 12:27


If we read Bible carefly, it interprets itself. As we see in this verse, the disciples of Christ are symbolically said to be the body of Christ. So, when it is said Christ was resurrected, it is meant these disciples became the Christ as if Jesus was resurrected to teach again. Hope it is clear now.

I believe logically that is called a jump to a conclusion or a non-sequitur. The resurrection is never depicted as symbolical.

 

[firedragon]

I believe I do not believe things without evidence. Anyone who knows me knows that I always speak the truth.

IM sorry but you have made a statement, and your evidence was simply because you say so. That doesnt mean you are lying. It just seems like you are absolutely ignorant about the Qur'an, but you make claims even about the language and you say you have studied the language "extensively" but Oh my God the things you say are completely out of this universe.

I thin you would probably take that as a person attack but I have asked you questions for things you have said but you never answer.

For example, since you made a claim about the language that you said you studied "extensively" I asked you "What does "Asmaa mansoob wa alhaa dhameer mutthasilun fee mahali jarrin bialadhaafathi" mean, and you should know that immediately if you have studied the language so much. Its an absolutely basic grammar.