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Tell me where in the Bible does Jesus clearly say that he's God
- Thread starter Animevox
- Start date
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
You won't find it. Not that there isn't suggestion of such, but nothing in the Bible is ever unequivocal, unambiguous, and clear. Nothing in life ever really is.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Who says it's the "word of God?" I simply say it's the collection of texts determined to be authentic in their inspiration.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
If you have read philosophy, it isn't always that clear either. Even a lot of fiction isn't that clear. There are always multiple ways of interpreting various works. That is why there are so many commentaries on works of all types.
And sure, the Bible isn't the literal word of God. That's fine. Doesn't remove any power it has. Doesn't remove the importance of the Bible. And many Christians have long accepted this.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
By who? Some Church Fathers who came 300 years after Jesus(pbuh), disagreed with each other and destroying other text that opposed them.. Seems fair?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You need to get a grip on church history.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Not really. The majority of the Bible was accepted before Jesus came around. For the NT, the canon really hasn't closed. Sure, there is debate, but oh well. Doesn't take away from its importance.
Also, the Church fathers didn't come together and state which works were okay. The general population, who used these works, picked which books to use.
nazz
Doubting Thomas
God or divinity because they are not necessarily exactly the same thing.
Whose inspiration exactly? Texts can't be authentic thru inspiration.
What if I said that I can fly when no one's looking? Would that make my statement authentic? Would it be true if I wrote it in a book and claimed that it was authentic thru the inspiration of watching Superman? Would you believe me? It's the same logic as yours after all.
You need to get a grip on God's words, not people's.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Well i was actually talking about the NT since the OT is not really that important according to many Christians nowadays.
Well i have to agree that some agreed on some scriptures but not everything for example there were allot of people who were reading the Gospel of Peter, Thomas and Mary there were also Church Fathers who agreed with the text yet they are not included.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God's "words" come through people.
If the history is wrong, it's wrong, no matter who touts it.
Your take on the history of the canon is wrong.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I didn't say they were authentic through inspiration. I said that they are the texts whose inspiration is determined to be authentic.
(BTW: Aren't the claims made by the Quran the same ones you list here?)
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Well the Christian idea is that several unknown writes got inspired while in Islam we just have one who we know.
Amechania
Daimona of the Helpless
John 14:9
"If you have seen me you have seen the Father."
John 10:30
"I and the Father are one."
Too ambiguous?
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
If it is not 'word of God' - it is totally subjective as to whether the inspiration is 'authentic' or not - and I certainly wouldn't recommend betting your eternal salvation on 'fickle human subjectivity'.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
That would be true for any Messenger/Prophet of God.
John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all"
'My Father' obviously doesn't mean 'Me'(Jesus) since he is not his Father ... so Father is greater than All including me(Jesus).
So which one is it - Father is Greater than All ? or equal to I ?
So 'yes' absolutely ambiguous.
Peace.
Amechania
Daimona of the Helpless
Well then, how about John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am." Or the old standby John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Of course there is Collossians 1:13-17, etc.
The idea of Trinity it seems to me is that the Father, Son, Spirit aren't the same individuals, but share the same Divine nature, all equally God. Just like you and I aren't the same people, but we are equally human.