Suicide and damnation

[Scott C.]

I believe suicide is a sin. However, a person may not be accountable to God for their actions (sins) due to mental illness, etc. We should not judge.

 

[dawny0826]

actually, you have committed suicide:

Suicide: The act of causing ones own death.​

Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect. Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.​

Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building.​

Suicide is direct when one has the intention of causing ones own death, whether as an end to be attained, or as a means to another end, as when a man kills himself to escape condemnation, disgrace, ruin, etc.​

Suicide is indirect (and not usually called suicide) when one does not desire it as an end or a means, but when one nevertheless commits an act which courts death, as in tending someone with SARS knowing that they may well succumb to the same illness.​

Source​

​

Who defines suicide this way in their day to day life? Right or wrong, I've been programmed to accept that "suicide" is the act of taking one's own life.

Right or wrong, I accept that "sacrifice" if giving your life for another or cause.

 

[Aasimar]

Just because you don't understand divine justice doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense, Aasimar. The Bible says that everyone will be judged properly.


I don't pretend to understand everything about God, but the Bible seems to indicate that he has everything worked out and I shouldn't try to do his job.

Far more people have died without accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior then have died with him as such. My response was to the idea that Salvation is only achieved through said acceptance.

It is quite simple.

1. If accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is a pre-requisite for going to heaven.

2. You have not accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

3. You do not go to heaven.

Which means that far, far, far more people have been damned then saved. Now whether or not you believe this is a pre-req is your own bread and butter, but if that is a pre-req, then tons of people aren't in heaven.



And I need to make this point clear, Jesus did not sacrifice anything, nor did God. God "Sacrificed his son" who is still supposedly chillin with God up in heaven. That's not a sacrifice. He's not dead. It was at most a 30 year stressful time for God during the eternity of his life, which is not so impressive I must say.

 

[Mister Emu]

Jesus did not sacrifice anything

Assuming the Bible story true, this is absurd...

 

[crystalonyx]

Two questions, for anyone that is religious to answer:

1. Will committing suicide damn you to hell?
2. Will being assisted to commit suicide damn you to hell?

Answers and comments, please.

I think you can breathe easy, for there is no heaven or hell. Those ideas are not even well-suppported biblically.

 

[Quath]

Assuming the Bible story true, this is absurd...

Sacrifice is the loss of something. What was lost? Effectively, Jesus was in a coma for a few days. Or you can believe that he went to hell for a few days. (Can that compare to someone spending eternity there?) Jesus was up and alive according to Christians a few days later. So Jesus just got hurt really badly. Is that worse than what some POWs have had to go through? There is no sacrifice if nothing is lost.

 

[rojse]

In Islam, the body is a niima or a blessing from Allah SWT. Its like this: god "leased" us this body and sent us to earth to worship him. Destroying his body and omitting the test is not an option... Plus suicide sometimes may seem like an easy way out of things but its wrong. Just because your current situation isn't looking up doesn't mean that you wont ever have a happy time again. A recent poll shows that 89% of people that committed suicide regretted it later

How do you question a dead person?

 

[rojse]

I think you can breathe easy, for there is no heaven or hell. Those ideas are not even well-suppported biblically.

Firstly, as I am an atheist, I do not believe it, and secondly, I do not plan on committing suicide.

Secondly, no matter what we think about biblical support for hell or heaven, many religious people do believe in it.

But for those that believe, will committing suicide cause someone to go to hell or not?

 

[Aasimar]

Assuming the Bible story true, this is absurd...

What does Jesus not have now that he had before his "Sacrifice?"


Jesus had a bad weekend for our sins.

 

[tomspug]

And I need to make this point clear, Jesus did not sacrifice anything, nor did God. God "Sacrificed his son" who is still supposedly chillin with God up in heaven. That's not a sacrifice. He's not dead. It was at most a 30 year stressful time for God during the eternity of his life, which is not so impressive I must say.

If you were God, all-powerful, all-knowing, why in your right mind would you ever subject yourself to endure a life full of pain, suffering, and death? He chose to live life just like we do, even though he didn't have to. Does that sound like something other than sacrifice to you?

 

[McBell]

If you were God, all-powerful, all-knowing, why in your right mind would you ever subject yourself to endure a life full of pain, suffering, and death? He chose to live life just like we do, even though he didn't have to. Does that sound like something other than sacrifice to you?

sac·ri·fice (s

k

r

-f

s

)n.1. a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
b. A victim offered in this way.

2. a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
b. Something so forfeited.

3. a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
b. Something so relinquished.
c. A loss so sustained.

4. Baseball A sacrifice hit or sacrifice fly.

v. sac·ri·ficed, sac·ri·fic·ing, sac·ri·fic·es
v.tr.1. To offer as a sacrifice to a deity.
2. To forfeit (one thing) for another thing considered to be of greater value.
3. To sell or give away at a loss.

v.intr.1. To make or offer a sacrifice.
2. Baseball To make a sacrifice hit or sacrifice fly.

[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin sacrificium : sacer, sacred; see sacred + facere, to make; see dh

- in Indo-European roots.]
​

I do not know what definition of 'sacrifice' you are using, but what exactly did your all knowing, all powerful deity give up?

 

[tomspug]

D'UH! HIS DEITY! He became a freaking MAN, for goodness sake! I'd like you to use comparative religions to show me any other incident of a god single-handedly taking the entire guilt of the world... upon himself! Who did... NOTHING wrong!

How is it NOT a sacrifice is the better question.

 

[McBell]

D'UH! HIS DEITY! He became a freaking MAN, for goodness sake! I'd like you to use comparative religions to show me any other incident of a god single-handedly taking the entire guilt of the world... upon himself! Who did... NOTHING wrong!

How is it NOT a sacrifice is the better question.

And yet you still have not answered the question.

When all was said and done, what exactly did your deity "sacrifice?"
I did not think this was such a difficult question.

 

[tomspug]

This is like the fifth time your response to an argument I make is that I did not answer your question. What you really mean is, "you didn't give the answer that would make me right". I'm done arguing with you on this subject, thank you very much.

 

[McBell]

This is like the fifth time your response to an argument I make is that I did not answer your question. What you really mean is, "you didn't give the answer that would make me right". I'm done arguing with you on this subject, thank you very much.

Nice try.
But the fact of the matter is you claim that there was a sacrifice yet you have yet to explain exactly what was sacrificed.

If you cannot answer the question, then fine.
I did not figure you could.

What can an all knowing all powerful entity sacrifice?
Seems you do not know the answer any more than I do.

But let us get into the nitty gritty of it.
God sends himself as his son to live as a man whilst at the same time remaining God.
What was sacrificed?
God was still God even whilst he was ALSO a man as Jesus.
So what exactly was loss?

 

[tomspug]

You just don't get it, Mestemia.

If you are infinite, by making a choice to limit yourself is to sacrifice your deity. To make yourself finite IS a sacrifice. You can disagree with me, but I most certainly answered your question. It just wasn't the one you wanted.

 

[McBell]

You just don't get it, Mestemia.

If you are infinite, by making a choice to limit yourself is to sacrifice your deity. To make yourself finite IS a sacrifice. You can disagree with me, but I most certainly answered your question. It just wasn't the one you wanted.

That is just it.
He did not limit himself.
He was STILL IN HEAVEN whilst Jesus (the "limited" part) was on earth.

So the fact remains that you have NOT answered the question.

 

[Todd]

Two questions, for anyone that is religious to answer:

1. Will committing suicide damn you to hell?
2. Will being assisted to commit suicide damn you to hell?

Answers and comments, please.

Yes and no to both. I'm giving you this from my understanding as a Christian since there will be many views from many different beliefs. If you are saved (meaning that you gave your life to Christ....i.e confessed with your mouth and believed in your heart that Jesus died for your sins), then no you wont be damned to hell because he paid for all your sins past, present, and future. If not, then yes. As stated, this is from my understanding and is in no way the definite. I am only a man that can give opinions and thoughts. The true answer is only known by God and I pray that his mercy is on anyone that does commit suicide.

 

[Captain Civic]

The idea of damnation from suicide is not in Scripture. It is solely Catholic doctrine, which (as far as I'm aware) most other Protestant denominations have also accepted. Show me one place in the Bible that says suicide is a one way ticket to Hell. I bet you can't. There are even stories in the Old Testament (and one in the New), around five in all, that talk about a character ending their life, but there is no implicit consequence defined.

The idea of damnation from suicide arose from the writings of St. Augustine, who believed that breaking the commandment "thou shalt not kill" was intrinsic to suicide. Thus, if you commit suicide (murder of self), you've broken the law willingly, you're damned. Sorry. The Catholic Church agreed, and it became dogma.

I completely disagree with the church's stance. At the same time, however, I don't condone it. I think suicide is a tragic and deeply saddening event (one of my good mates from high school was a suicide) but I don't see any reason to believe that it is eternally damning.

 

[kmkemp]

That is just it.
He did not limit himself.
He was STILL IN HEAVEN whilst Jesus (the "limited" part) was on earth.

So the fact remains that you have NOT answered the question.

Except that Jesus is God. =(