Suggestions for a new Satanist?

[kerriscott]

I actually ordered a copy of THE SINISTER TRADITION and have read the wiki page before. Im curious to learn more about them, but theres too much negative controversy behind them.

Unfortunately, the Order of Nine Angles (O9A) have published so much material over some thirty years that its sheer quantity can be confusing for those interested in their esoteric philosophy and their occult praxises. That collection of texts you mention is an example, especially as many of the texts there are polemical, propaganda, or just incitement.

Also, many people have an opinion about the O9A, often formed after reading only a little of their material and thus do not understand the O9A at all. Furthermore, the 'latter-day satanist crowd' - those who derive their understanding of satanism mostly from the Church of Satan (CoS) and/or the Temple of Set (ToS) - dislike the O9A for a variety of reasons, often because the O9A weltanschauung is the opposite of the type of satanism propounded by both the CoS and the ToS, given that the O9A advocate physical ordeals, rites of endurance, criminality, political and religious extremism, and of course culling.

Lastly, over the past five or so years what the O9A call "the O9A pretendu crowd" - those anonymously pretending to be or falsely claiming to be O9A - have often trolled internet forums and said stupid things, often because they also did not understand the O9A and called themselves O9A because they thought it was "cool" or whatever. The result being that the 'latter-day satanist crowd', in their ignorance, confused these anonymous internet pretenders with the O9A.

All that being said, if you really what to understand the O9A you have to study its esoteric philosophy and the life of the pseudonymous Anton Long. That is, forget reading their polemical, propagandist, inciting, texts - which is what you'll mostly find by searching the internet, or reading collections like the one you mentioned.

In respect of their esoteric philosophy: ontology → causal/acausal; epistemology → causal knowing + acausal knowing; ethics → the logos (the code) of kindred honour; meaning of our life → individual willed evolution → new human type → galactic exploration & settlement. This meaning can be discovered by, for example, their hermetic, mystical, 'seven fold way' and which way is a decades-long mystical quest which involves pathei-mathos: i.e. a direct personal learning via experience.

In respect of the life of the pseudonymous Anton Long, he is - as someone recently said - l'Archetipo del Mago. Thus, his strange and varied and documented life is "an example of what the [O9A's] Seven Fold Way means and implies in real life, and what the decades-long quest for lapis philosophicus, for wisdom itself, involves and, perhaps most important of all, what such a completed quest can result in." That's a quote from an essay entitled "Myatt, The Septenary Anados, And The Quest For Lapis Philosophicus" which is well worth reading.

To summarize, forget the vast corpus of O9A texts and what others have written and said about the O9A, for you can't understand the O9A without understanding (1) its complex esoteric philosophy; (2) its heremtic seven fold way, and thus its roots in ancient Hellenic hermeticism and the influence of ancient Arabic and Indic esoteric texts; and (3) the life of the pseudonymous Anton Long.

Perhaps it would be helpful if I started a new thread here with a title something like Explaining The O9A?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Yeah, the immature ones. I have no use for such silliness.

I find that that is another form of immature Satanism and that, after a period of study and practice, you "grow up" and move on from boorish materialistic hedonism.

I argued with a Satanist about the differences between Satanists and Luciferians and we both came up with the idea that it is best exemplified by comparing a Buddhist to an atheist. Luciferians although not always being theistic are heavily concerned with cognitive abilities and improving them. Satanists tend to be more materialistic primarily because of the fact that so many are atheistic.

 

[1137]

I argued with a Satanist about the differences between Satanists and Luciferians and we both came up with the idea that it is best exemplified by comparing a Buddhist to an atheist. Luciferians although not always being theistic are heavily concerned with cognitive abilities and improving them. Satanists tend to be more materialistic primarily because of the fact that so many are atheistic.

As a generalization I agree. Obviously there are exceptions. What I've yet to see an exception to is the Luciferians tend to be on a... higher level than Satanists are mentally. Not in an elitist way, just the way they act and view / understand the world. Luciferianism - for me - made me realize that the whole L/RHP distinction is pretty much BS.

 

[1137]

Unfortunately, the Order of Nine Angles (O9A) have published so much material over some thirty years that its sheer quantity can be confusing for those interested in their esoteric philosophy and their occult praxises. That collection of texts you mention is an example, especially as many of the texts there are polemical, propaganda, or just incitement.

Also, many people have an opinion about the O9A, often formed after reading only a little of their material and thus do not understand the O9A at all. Furthermore, the 'latter-day satanist crowd' - those who derive their understanding of satanism mostly from the Church of Satan (CoS) and/or the Temple of Set (ToS) - dislike the O9A for a variety of reasons, often because the O9A weltanschauung is the opposite of the type of satanism propounded by both the CoS and the ToS, given that the O9A advocate physical ordeals, rites of endurance, criminality, political and religious extremism, and of course culling.

Lastly, over the past five or so years what the O9A call "the O9A pretendu crowd" - those anonymously pretending to be or falsely claiming to be O9A - have often trolled internet forums and said stupid things, often because they also did not understand the O9A and called themselves O9A because they thought it was "cool" or whatever. The result being that the 'latter-day satanist crowd', in their ignorance, confused these anonymous internet pretenders with the O9A.

All that being said, if you really what to understand the O9A you have to study its esoteric philosophy and the life of the pseudonymous Anton Long. That is, forget reading their polemical, propagandist, inciting, texts - which is what you'll mostly find by searching the internet, or reading collections like the one you mentioned.

In respect of their esoteric philosophy: ontology → causal/acausal; epistemology → causal knowing + acausal knowing; ethics → the logos (the code) of kindred honour; meaning of our life → individual willed evolution → new human type → galactic exploration & settlement. This meaning can be discovered by, for example, their hermetic, mystical, 'seven fold way' and which way is a decades-long mystical quest which involves pathei-mathos: i.e. a direct personal learning via experience.

In respect of the life of the pseudonymous Anton Long, he is - as someone recently said - l'Archetipo del Mago. Thus, his strange and varied and documented life is "an example of what the [O9A's] Seven Fold Way means and implies in real life, and what the decades-long quest for lapis philosophicus, for wisdom itself, involves and, perhaps most important of all, what such a completed quest can result in." That's a quote from an essay entitled "Myatt, The Septenary Anados, And The Quest For Lapis Philosophicus" which is well worth reading.

To summarize, forget the vast corpus of O9A texts and what others have written and said about the O9A, for you can't understand the O9A without understanding (1) its complex esoteric philosophy; (2) its heremtic seven fold way, and thus its roots in ancient Hellenic hermeticism and the influence of ancient Arabic and Indic esoteric texts; and (3) the life of the pseudonymous Anton Long.

Perhaps it would be helpful if I started a new thread here with a title something like Explaining The O9A?

Just don't do it in this DIR to avoid issues. I'm not assuming youre stupid but most people misunderstand the whole DIR thing when they're "freshman members". Also be prepared for a huge backlash from at least one member that always goes after the O9A with a classic, mainstream satanic fury.

As for me, I'm very interested. Please do create this thread.

 

[Sha'irullah]

As a generalization I agree. Obviously there are exceptions. What I've yet to see an exception to is the Luciferians tend to be on a... higher level than Satanists are mentally. Not in an elitist way, just the way they act and view / understand the world. Luciferianism - for me - made me realize that the whole L/RHP distinction is pretty much BS.

I realized this a long time ago actually when I began studying textual literalism and hermeneutics. One can argue that both the right and left much like in the political field are opposites of each other yet one side professes a text as their doctrine and so does the other and neither follows it. For example a Christian can say that Satan represents everything evil because their Bible tells them so but as I demonstrated earlier, Yahweh literally commits acts of genocide that go into the millions while Satan murdered 10 people roughly. A Christian will say that they worship a god of love yet textually this is not the case. By using this logic you can say that Satanist are RHP and counter to LHP teachings.
Satanists are depicted as individuals making blood scarifies also yet Christian teachings condemn this. Yet Biblical blood sacrifice is the basis for Christian doctrine. Who is which path now.
When it comes to the RHP and LHP debates it is all about who is inverting one. I just broke it into simplistic terms but the very fact is that we are all hypocrites and nobody really follows any set doctrine. Satanists, pagans, and many Hindus are just more honest about it and just simply profess to being the creator of their own doctrine although they may have rough outlines.

We are all creators of our own religion and delude ourselves into thinking it is genuine.

 

[kerriscott]

Just don't do it in this DIR to avoid issues

Fair enough - where would you suggest? Perhaps the satanism DIR?

As for me, I'm very interested. Please do create this thread.

Thanks, I will. Maybe in the satanism DIR, since the O9A has been classified, by academics, and I quote "a dangerous and extreme form of Satanism."

 

[1137]

Fair enough - where would you suggest? Perhaps the satanism DIR?


Thanks, I will. Maybe in the satanism DIR, since the O9A has been classified, by academics, and I quote "a dangerous and extreme form of Satanism."

I'd say just do it in the main LHP DIR.

 

[blutausnord666]

I too would be interested in a thread about the O9A. Please do so.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I keep getting mixed opinions on the ONA. I was informed by a respected Satanist(CoS) years ago they copy after the CoS but this is not the case at all I learned later.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I actually ordered a copy of THE SINISTER TRADITION and have read the wiki page before. Im curious to learn more about them, but theres too much negative controversy behind them that I highly doubt its an ideology Id be interested in following. There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding them and Ive heard about them having ties to neo-nazi beliefs as well as advocating culling. Not something I agree with or are interested in at all. That said, Im still curious to learn about them out of mere curiosity.

The ONA is largely a waste of time. There's too much lying, trolling, "sinister" posturing and neo-Nazi crap. There's nothing Satanic about the ONA.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I argued with a Satanist about the differences between Satanists and Luciferians and we both came up with the idea that it is best exemplified by comparing a Buddhist to an atheist. Luciferians although not always being theistic are heavily concerned with cognitive abilities and improving them. Satanists tend to be more materialistic primarily because of the fact that so many are atheistic.

I'm actually a Luciferian, too. It's just that the label of Satanism covers both, in my mind, especially if you're a theistic Satanist who refers to Satan as Lucifer, too.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I really like your more intellectual approach. Thats kind of how I feel as well. I feel I need to study many different aspects of Satanism before I come to my own conclusion. Ive decided to re-read TSB, and study some of the links you provided before. Im finding some useful information, so thank you for providing the links. I even found an old book I bought years ago but never read called SATANISM AND WITCHCRAFT by Jules Michelet. Its not really about worshiping Satan, it about Satanic superstition in medieval times. While it doesnt really offer anything I can base my beliefs on, its an interesting perspective to learn about.

I also tend to agree with what youre saying about Levay being more pantheistic. He does talk a lot about dark forces of nature, rather than simply saying "there is no God".

I guess my next step is to study, study, study! Im lucky I like to read because I have a lot of reading on my plate, lol

But I have an odd question (maybe youll understand what Im talking about). What drew me to Satanism initially wasnt a desire to conjure up evil spirits or sacrifice any living being. I spent most my life as an atheist but but for many years I spent my life simply drawn to Satan. Like I said, not because of anything evil, but simply a feeling I would get...a "presence" I would feel. I had no information to base this feeling off of, its just a way I would feel. Levay always said that Satanists are "born not made". Im not sure I agree with that, but judging by this feeling Ive been having over the past few years of my life - that seemingly has come out of nowhere - maybe he has a valid point. Ive just naturally felt myself more and more interested in Satan as a deity. Does any of this make sense or do I sound nuts? lol

What drew you to Satanism?

You're very welcome and best of luck on the studying.

What drew me to Satanism was sympathy for the Devil. I saw that Satan was unfairly made out to be the "bad guy". An honest reading of the Bible will show that Yahweh is surely the villain of the story whereas the worst thing that Satan does is kill off Job's family, with Yahweh's permission! Plus, I was drawn to the idea of the tragic Romantic hero who struggles against unjust authority. I have a liking for the rebel and empathy for the misunderstood. And Who is more misunderstood in our society than Lord Satan?

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm actually a Luciferian, too. It's just that the label of Satanism covers both, in my mind, especially if you're a theistic Satanist who refers to Satan as Lucifer, too.

I am reminded by the whole Satan vs Lucifer debate. If you are a Luciferian in my view you are a Satanist as you are still being adversarial to the norms of ignorance. I am not fond of the whole label thing because I love paganism, Arabic/Islamic philosophy and Satanism. I have a 3 way love affair it seems . I will reconcile my mistresses and see what I become one day

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am reminded by the whole Satan vs Lucifer debate. If you are a Luciferian in my view you are a Satanist as you are still being adversarial to the norms of ignorance. I am not fond of the whole label thing because I love paganism, Arabic/Islamic philosophy and Satanism. I have a 3 way love affair it seems . I will reconcile my mistresses and see what I become one day

Nothing wrong with that. Part of the beauty of it is that you can combine whichever elements you want. It's whatever you want it to be.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Nothing wrong with that. Part of the beauty of it is that you can combine whichever elements you want. It's whatever you want it to be.

I stopped with the whole paganism 2 weeks ago because as I was going through my journals I had one essay regarding the nature of religion which I argued that all religious claims are pagan because all religions trace claims to paganism. I totally forgot I wrote this but so far it lives up to being true on a scholarly level
I call my journals كتاب الدوائر/Kitab al-Dawa'ir(Book of Circles) because of the fact I write things down as if I am arguing against an idea(in an anthropomorphic manner) or to myself. So far this is paying off

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I stopped with the whole paganism thing because as I was going through my journals I had one essay regarding the nature of religion which I argued that all religious claims are pagan because all religions trace claims to paganism.
I call my journals كتاب الدوائر/Kitab al-Dawa'ir(Book of Circles) because of the fact I write things down as if I am arguing against an idea(in an anthropomorphic manner) or to myself. So far this is paying off

That's a good point, actually. I think it's really just a false dichotomy that Abrahamic religions made up in order to make themselves seem separate from the rest of the world's religious traditions. It's a bunch of bs. No set of beliefs develops in a vacuum.

 

[Sha'irullah]

That's a good point, actually. I think it's really just a false dichotomy that Abrahamic religions made up in order to make themselves seem separate from the rest of the world's religious traditions. It's a bunch of bs. No set of beliefs develops in a vacuum.

You may wanna eat your words on that. Mormonism, that religion had to be started in a vacuum because I do not see how any of that stuff came from anything previously existing

 

[1137]

The ONA is largely a waste of time. There's too much lying, trolling, "sinister" posturing and neo-Nazi crap. There's nothing Satanic about the ONA.

Besides Nazism all this is satanic by definition.

I'm actually a Luciferian, too. It's just that the label of Satanism covers both, in my mind, especially if you're a theistic Satanist who refers to Satan as Lucifer, too.

I disagree with everything here, but I'm pretty sure I'm already on your ignore list for pointing out flaws in your reasoning in another thread. So Luciferian

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You may wanna eat your words on that. Mormonism, that religion had to be started in a vacuum because I do not see how any of that stuff came from anything previously existing

Lol!

 

[kerriscott]

The ONA is largely a waste of time. There's too much lying, trolling, "sinister" posturing and neo-Nazi crap. There's nothing Satanic about the ONA.

1. Please explain how a detailed esoteric philosophy - with roots in ancient Hellenic hermeticism is "a waste of time".
2. Ditto in respect of the O9A's seven fold way.
3. Please explain the difference between incitement, adversarial propaganda, and an esoteric philosophy.
4. Please define what you mean by 'satanic'.
5. As for lying, trolling, "sinister" posturing, here's a quote from my post Explaining the Order of Nine Angles -

Over the past five or so years, what the O9A call "the O9A pretendu crowd" - those anonymously pretending to be or falsely claiming to be O9A - have often trolled internet forums and said stupid things, often because they also did not understand the O9A and just called themselves O9A because they thought it was "cool", adversarial, or whatever. The result being that the 'latter-day satanist crowd', in their ignorance, confused these anonymous internet pretenders with the O9A.​

6. As for 'neo-nazi crap' - have you read old O9A texts such as Satanism, Blasphemy and the Black Mass and MSS dealing with insight roles? If so, you would have appreciated the O9A context of such stuff - as a modern blasphemy and as a modern heretical adversarial role played out for a while in real life as a personal learning experience.