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Featured Spirituality and science

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Unveiled Artist, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Maybe I'm not a human being that has consciousness. Maybe I'm consciousness that is shaped into a human being.

    Jeff Lieberman, an MIT-trained artist, scientist and engineer, makes a scientific argument for mystical experience. He asks us to challenge our perception of what we are, our relationship to the universe, and our relationship to one another. Our minds are "thought-generating machines." What we would happen if we could turn off the machine? If we could transcend our individual experience of the world?

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Spirituality and science

    Spirituality is not a discipline of science, please. Right?
    Why relate them, please? Right?

    Regards
     
  3. Jacob Samuelson

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    I can't argue with this discovery as it breaks our substance down to its core materials. Often times the answer is not transcending into another realm of reality or consciousness, it is descending within our own selves, being humble enough to accept there are discoveries within our mortal frames and conscious that are needed to benefit the world around it. We have to remember that pain is inevitable, yet misery and suffering is optional.
     
  4. Jacob Samuelson

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    Spirituality is the coming to a knowledge and understanding of one's self and the universe. Science is merely a tool to help one get there. Their relationship is conditional to the person and not to its meaning. It seems for the presenter, that science was the key to his enlightenment, but for others it might be completely different.
     
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  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Could it be that if the "machine" was turned off, we would go back to one consciousness? That originally we are not many individual people but one main entity?
     
  6. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Cannabis really isn't for everyone.
     
  7. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

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    The human brain has two centers of consciousness; the inner self and the ego. The inner self is much older and is the center of the brain's operating system. It is connected to our DNA. The inner self is connected to evolution and selection. The inner self is also the center of animal consciousness; different DNA. The ego is much newer and appears to have evolve due to civilization; 6-10K year ago. Animals do not have an ego, but only an inner self.

    In humans, having two centers is like having two eyes. Like our two eyes, each center sees the same world, but in different ways; angles. The inner self sees in a more natural and instinctive way; long trends within our human DNA that defines our natural human propensities. While ego is more about learned knowledge within our own lifetime. When both eyes are used to see at the same time, we will see in 3-D; enhancement beyond two separate eyes. The ego seeing along with the inner self gives us this feeling of conscious enhancement, that the ego often attributed to itself. I think therefore I am.

    Jeff Leiberman appears to be starting to isolate his other eye; inner self. He is smart and artistic. He still appears to be attributing the 3-D consciousness enhancement affect to his ego, and he is wondering if we shut that off, what will be left; inner self. That was me decades ago. It is good young people are making that old journey in this modern era.

    The idea of the inner self is nebulous to most people. Most assume the ego is all there is the rest is unconscious waste. A good home experiment to slightly open the door to the inner self, a get a peak, is to ask a friend to scare you when you are off guard. He or she can wait several days until you appear to forget and are not ready. What will typically happen is the inner self will see and react before the ego, via instinct. This could cause you to feel an adrenaline thump in your heart, you may scream, run or move you fists. The ego eye will come on line, shortly thereafter. It may start to laugh waiting for the adrenaline to fade. The inner self is trying to survive and will not always wait for the ego. In this scenario, with lots of martial arts training; ego learning, the two eyes can focus together, sooner, under similar circumstances.

    The pain and suffering of the world is when the two eyes see different things that cannot overlap and come to a focus. The natural eye cannot come to a focus with the focus of unnatural learned knowledge. The inner self may separate from the ego to help lower the potential and stress on the brain and body; loss of soul. But when both are on the same page the enhancement of 3-D appears; self actualization.

    Most religions are about enhancing the inner self more than the ego. For example, the idea of blessed are the poor does not make sense to the ego, since so much ego self enhancement can be self induced with money. Monet allows for positive sensory experiences and lots of yes men. Without that external leverage for the ego, it is harder for the ego to inflate. But the induced lack of the ego, often opens the door to the inner self; natural eye. Where science and spirituality combine is by studying the ancient ways of many religions; rituals, symbols and prayers, one can learn to use these command lines to open up the brain's operating system, and to improve connection to the inner self's eye; inner knowledge.

    It is more complicated and dangerous than is sounds, since there are many layers within the brain' operating system, between the ego and the inner self. Each layer can appear to be the final goal and can be misleading; ego inflation for a step back. To make a rough list we first need to address the persona or mask of the ego, then the ego proper, the personal unconscious, the shadow; gatekeeper, then three layers of archetypical firmware connected to our the DNA, then the inner self. If and when you finish, but still live in an ego-centric world, you do not belong anywhere, except somewhere between nature and the creative flux.
     
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  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by machine. I think if we went back to consciousness or energy there'd be no differentiation between one person and another. It would be somewhat creepy to look from the outside in as energy. Everything exists as literally the figment of our imagination.
     
  9. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    The body would be the machine, when it dies we go back being a part of cosmos, in my understanding
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Once the body dies, what goes back to the cosmos?

    In my understanding everything is energy so not sure how we can go "back to" but just change form.
     
  11. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Our consciousness in my understanding goes back to cosmos.

    Of course I can be wrong:)
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't know. I'm not familiar what consciousness is.
     
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  13. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    WE are Spiritual Beings trapped in a physical body. He is headed in the right direction.

    So much is about choice. Each person has the ability to choose what they deem important. If one chooses one will never be happy unless one has a million dollars, how many are choosing unhappiness for themselves?

    What is the ole saying: If you do not mind, it doesn't matter. How much unhappiness do people choose for themselves when one can as easily choose happiness?

    Even in the midst of great turmoil, I will always be Happy!!! Yes, You can too!! It has always been in your hands!!

    That is what I see. It's very clear!!
     
  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Shutdown, complete or partial? Shutdown the main server, no experience whatsoever.
    Whether keep it running or shut down, we are one entity. Physical Energy, like Unveiled Artist said.
    As in above, there is no difference, and without the machine, there is no experience. What is creepy about it?
    Body is a part of cosmos, whether living or dead.
    My belief too.
    Consciousness is a product of working of the brain. No brain, no consciousness.
     
    #14 Aupmanyav, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  15. WonderingWorrier

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    Yes. That is what happens when we switch off. We then experience something else.


    The video was interesting.

    If anyone here is interested and willing to have some of their time wasted I could try to explain how to switch thoughts off instantly and be able to hold it in the off position.

    I think it is what is referred to as meditation.
    What happens next is phosphenes (to see light) start appearing.
    Then eyelids flick open in another dimension.

    Scientific research has made connections between phosphene shapes and patterns, and global prehistoric art.

    I think the meditation techniques like observing thoughts, visualising, counting, and listening to breath, will not work the same way. They do not make the mind still enough for the process to happen.

    I will try to explain in a simple way.

    Its like seeing movement outside your window on a dark night.
    You then look out into the darkness with a still mind, because you are alert. What is out there?

    Also like hearing something outside your window allows your ears to tune out any other noises and focus into the darkness. Listening into yourself.

    You become selfless in a state of alertness.


    So what can be found, when searching deep within yourself?
     
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  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    IMHO, you are not far from truth. Phosphene - Wikipedia, Prisoner's cinema - Wikipedia, Photopsia - Wikipedia.
    "Another mechanism is a thalamocortical dysrhythmia of the visual pathway similar to tinnitus which is a thalamocortical dysrhythmia of the auditory pathway." Visual snow - Wikipedia
    Thalamocortical dysrhythmia: Which may also be the reason for NDE and meditational experiences. Breaking down of the rhythm.

    This is an approximation of the zig-zag visual of a scintillating scotoma as a migraine aura. It moves and vibrates, expanding and slowly fading away over the course of about 20 minutes.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #16 Aupmanyav, Sep 7, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't use the word machine to describe it. Sounds sci-fi language. It makes sense that we are all energy and we just change forms. I do believe there can be some spiritual relevance in realizing that one is pure energy and energy cannot "die." But to explain it in mechanical terms sounds weird.
     
  18. WonderingWorrier

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    I had not heard of a migraine aura. I know phosphenes can be seen with eyes open or closed.

    The prisoners cinema is interesting (I see the link also mentions cave paintings).
    Because thats what I think is happening with the meditation. A lack of stimulation kick starts another part of the mind.

    When the phosphenes appear it requires a sort of giving in to the light. Letting them do what they are doing. Otherwise the phosphenes become the focus and the stimulation keeps bringing the mind back.

    They become more intense by not focusing on them.

    Thats when it gets interesting. The mind can open a different world.
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I used the word "machine" because the OP used it. I will normally use the word "brain and its working". Advaita view that I hold maintains that all things, living or non-living, without any exception, are 'physical energy' only. BTW, there is no 'pure' or 'impure' energy. Energy is energy. Yes, it never dies but only changes form.
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I suffer from tinnitus (I am 79). I hear at least two kind of sounds all the time in the background. During day, it is like the sound of crickets and another like humming of a machine. It is not severe till now and I can live with it. In the night, it turns into the sound of people talking in addition to the two tinnitus sounds. That is why older people wake up in the middle of night, hear voice even reply to them. I understand the situation. It has happened to elders in my family. I think your line which I have underlined is important.

    Though I do not agree to what you said later. If there is a 'different world', then it is only a hallucination. Otherwise 'what exists' is just an ocean of energy.
     
    #20 Aupmanyav, Sep 8, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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