Spirits vs Gods

[Thief]

I have drawn a line.
I feel sure .....I can perceive the difference between something alive............and something dead

 

[Janardena]

Without using biblical and any other holy scriptures, I base my definition off of personal experience both my experience and those my family and friends even tell me. I find that what we read in books are not the same as what we hear from people. I can read about Martin Luther King and his "I have a dream" speach but nothing beats actually talking to or even being there when he made it in front of hundreds.

I can't talk to people in any holy text nor can I talk to people in those text who have literally witnessed their god. All I can do is go off of what believers today; and, you see how varried their definitions are.

That's not the point of holy text. In such texts you will always find some kind of rules and regulations that are fit for human society. These rules and regs, do not, all of a sudden prove that God exists. They are there to re-condition the conditioned human, so that the human being can become self-realised. It is from that perspective one can comprehend God.

There aren't varied definitions of God, the definition of God is vast. But we can comprehend who and what God is, in relation to us. That is the first step.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's not the point of holy text. In such texts you will always find some kind of rules and regulations that are fit for human society. These rules and regs, do not, all of a sudden prove that God exists. They are there to re-condition the conditioned human, so that the human being can become self-realised. It is from that perspective one can comprehend God.

I dont understand the relation to my post. Some of us cannot comprehend something that is non existant. That is like telling to comprehend space. If there were no molecules, atoms, air...just nothing, I have no way to describe that but "lack of". To me, you are trying to get me and many of us to understand the nature of that space. It doesnt work. Definitions are based on people. The fact doesnt change based on our experiences.

There aren't varied definitions of God, the definition of God is vast. But we can comprehend who and what God is, in relation to us. That is the first step.

There are a vast definitions of god. If god exists, its hard to know its nature when its believers have so many definitions from gosmos to Christ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

While they're not precisely synonyms to me, they end up being interchangeable because of the nature of my theology.

"Spirit" to me describes the essence and nature of a thing, including its tangible and intangible qualities. All things have a definable essence or nature... or have a spirit.
"Gods" to me describes the things I deem worthy of worship.
Because there is nothing I deem unworthy of worship, I deify everything. And as everything has a definable essence or nature, all spirits are gods and all gods have a spirit. So... yeah. Pretty much synonymous.

Do you worship the spirit spirits of everything or the actual thing itself?

When you say "I worship the sun spirit" (I think? From other thread posts) Im not thinking you worship thr actual sun. We kinda are alike but different (cant tell really...relating your view to mine helps me understand yours). I worship (hate that word) the actual sun. What do you mean by sun spirit? Is that the same as saying you worship the sun? Is it terminology preference?

 

[Janardena]

I dont understand the relation to my post. Some of us cannot comprehend something that is non existant.

Yet you assert that it is non existent.
Or did you mean that which you cannot see?

That is like telling to comprehend space. If there were no molecules, atoms, air...just nothing, I have no way to describe that but "lack of".

That person would know what space is, as he/she would have exactly the same experience of it. So the onus would be on the person to develop their intelligence, and step up to the actuality of it.

To me, you are trying to get me and many of us to understand the nature of that space. It doesnt work. Definitions are based on people. The fact doesnt change based on our experiences.

Tell me something that you didn't learn from others, that you worked out all by yourself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yet you assert that it is non existent. Or did you mean that which you cannot see?

No. Something that does not exist.

Tell me something that you didn't learn from others, that you worked out all by yours

Christianity, " I " learned everything through the Catholic Church. Outside of that "personal" experience, I have none. Hence why I ask others and trust others in "their" faith and their experiences. I would be bias to use my experience (or lack of) to judge theirs.

What do you mean by that question? I dont care for indirect statements. Makes me answer questions that may not relate to the meaning behind it. Wastes time.

 

[Janardena]

No. Something that does not exist.

That goes without saying.
Neither can we have any notion, at all, of something that does not exist.
So how have you come to understand that that concept does not exist?

Tell me something that you didn't learn from others, that you worked out all by yourself

What do you mean by that question? I dont care for indirect statements. Makes me answer questions that may not relate to the meaning behind it. Wastes time.

You said: To me, you are trying to get me and many of us to understand the nature of that space. It doesnt work. Definitions are based on people. The fact doesnt change based on our experiences.

I'll put it another way.
What has your mind defined without the input of definitions from others?
Seeing as you see cannot accept definitions based on other people (as opposed to yourself).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Neither can we have any notion, at all, of something that does not exist.
So how have you come to understand that that concept does not exist?

Just process of elimination. Based on a lot of things.

What has your mind defined without the input of definitions from others?
Seeing as you see cannot accept definitions based on other people (as opposed to yourself).

What do you mean? If someone says a spirit is X who am I to judge him if I disagreed?

On that note

Who am I to judge another persons def even if i disagree? Why not take people at their word when it comes to belief?

If I didnt accept others definition, Id be trying to prove people wrong. I have not. I just voice my views in OP. If people disagree, that is their thing (and visa versa).

I have no clue what youre saying I did wrong. I just know I have an opinion and try to understand others.

Disagreement doesnt mean non acceptence.

 

[Janardena]

Just process of elimination. Based on a lot of things.

How can you know that something which doesn't exist, doesn't exist?

What do you mean? If someone says a spirit is X who am I to judge him if I disagreed?

Do you disagree because it does not exist?

I have no clue what youre saying I did wrong. I just know I have an opinion and try to understand others.

Sorry for giving you the impression that I'm saying you did something wrong.
That is not my intention. Apologies.

 

[rusra02]

I see people in the bible the same as people today who believe in it. Since I do not practice Christianity, I trust that believers (yourself included) are telling what is true to the best of their knowledge as well as people in scripture.

Separating yourself from people in scripture and saying that some of the believers can be unreliable just tells me your opinion that I cannot trust believers. It also gives me the impression that if someone tells me they are Christian, maybe I should question their claim. That is completely disrespectful. If you and half the other generation together say you are Christian, who am I to judge? That, and there are so many different opinions (or beliefs) about what Christianity is, that to say anyone has a fact or a truth is completely illogical.

Unless everyone says one thing in unison, I can only judge what they say is true from their point of view if they tell me their point of view. I read scripture and know people in scripture's point of view, that does not tell me yours.

Unless your point of view IS scripture; then you'd have to explain your point not just post a verse (not saying you didn't just in general for all Christians)

Please read this in full.

I believe we should examine the claims of those who claim to be Christian so we are not misled by "false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:13) It is not disrespectful at all, IMO, to compare the claims of professed Christians with what Jesus Christ actually taught and practiced. Jesus Christ told us to "Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit." (Matthew 7:15-17) The works of many professed Christians show they are not following the Christ, as Jesus said would happen. (Matthew 7:21-23) I believe true Christians are unified in their beliefs and practices, and are an international brotherhood that are identified by the sincere love they have among themselves.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I believe we should examine the claims of those who claim to be Christian so we are not misled by "false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:13) It is not disrespectful at all, IMO, to compare the claims of professed Christians with what Jesus Christ actually taught and practiced. Jesus Christ told us to "Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit." (Matthew 7:15-17) The works of many professed Christians show they are not following the Christ, as Jesus said would happen. (Matthew 7:21-23) I believe true Christians are unified in their beliefs and practices, and are an international brotherhood that are identified by the sincere love thhey have among themselves.

I understand. If Im not mistaken, scripture says for believers to test each others knowledge not everyone. I wouldnt know where to start to question if you are telling truth. Why would " I "? This isnt factual debate. So, I take you at your word. That is my personal opinion.

If I question people about their faith based on my way of seeing, it deprives my understanding them.

That is me. I understand what youre saying. Id say that applies between believers.