Spirit animals?

[Raahim]

Greetings,

Spoiler: For those hardcore Islamophobes

I apologize for what I'll write now, but I just want to be very clear: Cut the line with Islamic teachings on polytheism and answer my question because I'm asking out of curiosity & I personally have nothing against anyone, on Islamic teachings that might be bad for me, but that's just the way I am.

I was wondering what's the idea behind those spirit animals? Are they like zodiac sign that describe your personality & (sort-of) faith?

 

[Mindmaster]

I'll probably be able to answer this question much later, but for now I have no useful answer.

 

[Raahim]

I'll probably be able to answer this question much later, but for now I have no useful answer.

Any answer would be enough.
I'll continue my studying until a good answer comes then.

 

[Quintessence]

There are many Pagan religions, and the way non-human animals are regarded in those traditions varies quite a lot. That said, I have only seen them treated like "personality tests" for entertainment purposes or by the New Ager crowd, not for serious religious practice.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Greetings,

Spoiler: For those hardcore Islamophobes

I apologize for what I'll write now, but I just want to be very clear: Cut the cr*p with Islamic teachings on polytheism and answer my question because I'm asking out of curiosity & I personally have nothing against anyone, on Islamic teachings that might be bad for me, but that's just the way I am.

I was wondering what's the idea behind those spirit animals? Are they like zodiac sign that describe your personality & (sort-of) faith?

I going to have to ask: WHICH spirit animals? There isn't just one idea behind spirit animals, because the general concept occurs (or is now labeled) in different traditions that have very different beliefs and practices. For example, the idea of zodiac signs can fall under the broad concept of totenism (we are related through birth or affinity, not only with other humans, but with plants, animals and other things in the cosmos, into related clans--but it doesn't necessarily say anything about personality), but it can also be used to suggest that people born "under" that sign will have certain personality traits. Or, are more likely to undertake certain kinds of jobs, etc.

In other traditions/cultures, spirit animals may be the way that the other species communicate with humans, appearing often in dreams and visions, but often too "in real life" to tell humans to change their behavior or to reaffirm the relationship between the human and animal communities. this often gets to be harder for Westerners and monotheists to grasp: many cultures believe all humans, plants, animals, etc., share the same kind of spirit, and live in similar kinds of communities, but just "wear" different bodies, making direct communication difficult. In this sense, "animal spirits" are just other persons--"other than human" persons.

These spirit animals may also (in other cultures/traditions) be viewed as messengers from the spirit world: from god or the gods, from the ancestors, from the other spiritual powers. Often, this is constructed (especially in western thought and New Age thinking) as "power animals," that give one strength, wisdom, etc., in dealing with the rest of the world--sort of a psychological ally to help one cope with life. Others, especially Western people, tend to see that more as an expression of your personality, rather than an external entity, though.

There's lots of other ways to look at them too, and understanding how people are using the term (or the underlying concept) depends on understanding how the person/culture views it, not on how outsiders view it.

I hope this helps you.

 

[Raahim]

There are many Pagan religions, and the way non-human animals are regarded in those traditions varies quite a lot. That said, I have only seen them treated like "personality tests" for entertainment purposes or by the New Ager crowd, not for serious religious practice.

Thanks for the answer.

I going to have to ask: WHICH spirit animals? There isn't just one idea behind spirit animals, because the general concept occurs (or is now labeled) in different traditions that have very different beliefs and practices. For example, the idea of zodiac signs can fall under the broad concept of totenism (we are related through birth or affinity, not only with other humans, but with plants, animals and other things in the cosmos, into related clans--but it doesn't necessarily say anything about personality), but it can also be used to suggest that people born "under" that sign will have certain personality traits. Or, are more likely to undertake certain kinds of jobs, etc.

In other traditions/cultures, spirit animals may be the way that the other species communicate with humans, appearing often in dreams and visions, but often too "in real life" to tell humans to change their behavior or to reaffirm the relationship between the human and animal communities. this often gets to be harder for Westerners and monotheists to grasp: many cultures believe all humans, plants, animals, etc., share the same kind of spirit, and live in similar kinds of communities, but just "wear" different bodies, making direct communication difficult. In this sense, "animal spirits" are just other persons--"other than human" persons.

These spirit animals may also (in other cultures/traditions) be viewed as messengers from the spirit world: from god or the gods, from the ancestors, from the other spiritual powers. Often, this is constructed (especially in western thought and New Age thinking) as "power animals," that give one strength, wisdom, etc., in dealing with the rest of the world--sort of a psychological ally to help one cope with life. Others, especially Western people, tend to see that more as an expression of your personality, rather than an external entity, though.

There's lots of other ways to look at them too, and understanding how people are using the term (or the underlying concept) depends on understanding how the person/culture views it, not on how outsiders view it.

I hope this helps you.

Awesome answer, thanks, makes it much clear.

 

[Cassandra]

Greetings,

Spoiler: For those hardcore Islamophobes

I apologize for what I'll write now, but I just want to be very clear: Cut the cr*p with Islamic teachings on polytheism and answer my question because I'm asking out of curiosity & I personally have nothing against anyone, on Islamic teachings that might be bad for me, but that's just the way I am.

I was wondering what's the idea behind those spirit animals? Are they like zodiac sign that describe your personality & (sort-of) faith?

Some New Age thing

And please keep your insults to yourself.

 

[Cassandra]

I going to have to ask: WHICH spirit animals? There isn't just one idea behind spirit animals, because the general concept occurs (or is now labeled) in different traditions that have very different beliefs and practices. For example, the idea of zodiac signs can fall under the broad concept of totenism (we are related through birth or affinity, not only with other humans, but with plants, animals and other things in the cosmos, into related clans--but it doesn't necessarily say anything about personality), but it can also be used to suggest that people born "under" that sign will have certain personality traits. Or, are more likely to undertake certain kinds of jobs, etc.

In other traditions/cultures, spirit animals may be the way that the other species communicate with humans, appearing often in dreams and visions, but often too "in real life" to tell humans to change their behavior or to reaffirm the relationship between the human and animal communities. this often gets to be harder for Westerners and monotheists to grasp: many cultures believe all humans, plants, animals, etc., share the same kind of spirit, and live in similar kinds of communities, but just "wear" different bodies, making direct communication difficult. In this sense, "animal spirits" are just other persons--"other than human" persons.

These spirit animals may also (in other cultures/traditions) be viewed as messengers from the spirit world: from god or the gods, from the ancestors, from the other spiritual powers. Often, this is constructed (especially in western thought and New Age thinking) as "power animals," that give one strength, wisdom, etc., in dealing with the rest of the world--sort of a psychological ally to help one cope with life. Others, especially Western people, tend to see that more as an expression of your personality, rather than an external entity, though.

There's lots of other ways to look at them too, and understanding how people are using the term (or the underlying concept) depends on understanding how the person/culture views it, not on how outsiders view it.

I hope this helps you.

Please give me sources.
I do not think the term "spirit animals" is used outside child books.

Makes no sense either, Indians talk about animal spirits and animal guides, not spirit animals. A spirit animal would logically be a spirit that takes the form of an animal. But I have never seen them labeled that way. Something like Zeus took the form of a Bull and became spirit animal.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Got a student coming in a few minutes, so can't go pull sources...and I'm not sure it's really necessary. I was trying to use the OPs original wording because I suspect (and I may be incorrect) that English may not be his/her first language, and I didn't want to be more confusing in my response.

And really? Spirit animal /= animal spirit? Especially when discussing ideas that have been largely taken from other languages and translated and organized according to English meanings and grammar? You're making this WAY more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[Cassandra]

Got a student coming in a few minutes, so can't go pull sources...and I'm not sure it's really necessary. I was trying to use the OPs original wording because I suspect (and I may be incorrect) that English may not be his/her first language, and I didn't want to be more confusing in my response.

And really? Spirit animal /= animal spirit? Especially when discussing ideas that have been largely taken from other languages and translated and organized according to English meanings and grammar? You're making this WAY more difficult than it needs to be.

My view:

If someone who has zero knowledge of things Pagan asks such a question he probably picked it up in the media. It is something of a hype with movies like Compass. And "Spirit animals" is a very popular fantasy book series for children.

But it is exactly these media hypes that create a lot of distortion about what Pagan traditions are about, blowing fringe aspects way out of proportion and creating an image that is mostly fantastic. But then again that is how religious stories are often born. It is no coincidence that the biggest religions are based on a media hype in a times that books were a novelty for most people, and for many magical.

I am a bit surprised that a scientist would belittle the importance of correct wording. If doubting what the person is referring too, the rational approach would be to ask further explanation or to simply take his words literal. Why not?

If taken literal the closest thing to "Spirit Animals" I can think of would be the "familiars" of Witches. I quote Wikipedia:

In European folklore and folk-belief of the Medieval and Early Modern periods, familiar spirits (sometimes referred to simply as "familiars" or "animal guides") were believed to be supernatural entities that would assist witches and cunning folk in their practice of magic. According to the records of the time, they would appear in numerous guises, often as an animal, but also at times as a human or humanoid figure, and were described as "clearly defined, three-dimensional… forms, vivid with colour and animated with movement and sound" by those alleging to have come into contact with them, unlike later descriptions of ghosts with their "smoky, undefined form

...

Since the 20th century a number of magical practitioners, including adherents of the Neopagan religion of Wicca, have begun to utilise the concept of familiars, due to their association with older forms of magic. These contemporary practitioners utilize pets, wildlife or believe that invisible spirit versions of familiars act as magical aids.

Another possibility would be: A mental projection of a Shaman in an animal form that is experienced as very real by the person to whom it is send to in his dream state or awake.

Those rime with the idea of a spirit taking the form of an animal.

 

[Quintessence]

Alternatively, rather than making assumptions, we can ask the OP what they've encountered for clarification.

Speaking of which, @Raahim , would you mind? Something like "spirit animal" could mean many different things... could you provide some context for us?

 

[Raahim]

I didn't know there was much about it, I just heard two friends (one friend other not that close) talking about taming a spirit animal and that one's spirit animal was a bear and he didn't like it but it had strength and that it means he can get close to a bear and it won't attack him because they are connected on that some spiritual level. It was more like spiritual taming of animal from what I concluded and they can do something with it, I'm not sure what but they made something very spiritual with it. I don't quite understand and I didn't know there was more opinions on that I thought it was something universal in polytheism.

 

[Sapiens]

I didn't know there was much about it, I just heard two friends (one friend other not that close) talking about taming a spirit animal and that one's spirit animal was a bear and he didn't like it but it had strength and that it means he can get close to a bear and it won't attack him because they are connected on that some spiritual level. It was more like spiritual taming of animal from what I concluded and they can do something with it, I'm not sure what but they made something very spiritual with it. I don't quite understand and I didn't know there was more opinions on that I thought it was something universal in polytheism.

Tradition has is that one should never reveal the identity of a spirit animal, it gives those who learn the spirit animal's identity some degree or power (well ... more like influence) over you.

Here is a gross simplification of the concepts: http://www.manataka.org/page236.html#FALCON

 

[Raahim]

Tradition has is that one should never reveal the identity of a spirit animal, it gives those who learn the spirit animal's identity some degree or power (well ... more like influence) over you.

Here is a gross simplification of the concepts: http://www.manataka.org/page236.html#FALCON

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out now.

 

[Quintessence]

I didn't know there was much about it, I just heard two friends (one friend other not that close) talking about taming a spirit animal and that one's spirit animal was a bear and he didn't like it but it had strength and that it means he can get close to a bear and it won't attack him because they are connected on that some spiritual level. It was more like spiritual taming of animal from what I concluded and they can do something with it, I'm not sure what but they made something very spiritual with it. I don't quite understand and I didn't know there was more opinions on that I thought it was something universal in polytheism.

The sort of idea you're talking about doesn't have much to do with polytheism, as polytheistic theology is unnecessary to embrace this sort of idea above. What you describe sounds more like what is sometimes also called (contemporary) "totemism" or "power animals." This idea is appropriated more from animistic and shamanistic cultures than polytheistic ones (though animism/shamanism is often found in conjunction with polytheism). Still, many contemporary Pagans do use these ideas in their practices. One of the more prolific authors on this topic is Lupa, whose works I have had on my read list for a while but just haven't gotten around to purchasing (this is one of the works on my list). I've read enough of Lupa's writings and listened to her speak often enough that I respect her approach both as a Pagan and as a scientist. You might find it interesting to read some of their series of blog posts here: http://www.thegreenwolf.com/totemism-201-an-introduction-and-purpose/

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I am a bit surprised that a scientist would belittle the importance of correct wording. If doubting what the person is referring too, the rational approach would be to ask further explanation or to simply take his words literal. Why not?

If you read what I wrote, I started out asking the OP what he meant. Sure, that's a rational approach.

I also took his words "literal," which if he's not familiar with the words and their possible meanings (pretty clear from how he asked), there was a good chance that he was entirely uncertain how the words were being used in the first place, and it therefore the order of the words would be unimportant to him. Turns out, this was the case, but we only found that out after he responded to Quint's request for clarification.

I then discussed some different concepts about animal spirits/spirit animals that could at least prompt him to say, "Oh, it's like this, not like that." He chose to not respond to my question and simply thanked me for my answer.

However, your responses in this thread, and in some others I've read recently, convince me that I really don't want to discuss anything with you.

But, please think on this:
I am an animist; meaning that to me, every thing is/has "spirit."
All material things have/are spirits.
Non-material things, such as ideas, are also spirits.
Therefore, animals ARE spirits.
However, I am also aware sometimes of spirits that don't seem to have bodies, such as I might see (as I have) a "ghostly" deer that doesn't seem to be a solid body. I might call that a "spirit animal," or an "animal spirit." Or, it might be a ghost. Or it might be an ancestor, or a god or goddes, or any one of a number of other entities putting on a form for me to see, but to also show that it is not a physical deer. Or it might be an illusion, a vision, or a hallucination. Does it matter? Over my lifetime, I have had several spirits that have been "guides," or "familiars," or "assistants," or "guardians,"...some seem to be human, others seem to be animal, others seem to be...I don't know...it really doesn't matter what I call them, and it really doesn't matter how other people would categorize them--I do know, however, some of the different ways that different people would or might classify them.

And arguing over which term is right is a waste of time. In my opinion.

 

[Jainarayan]

In Norse mythology there is a fylgja (FIL-gya). It is a part of the self, and is usually, but not always, an animal. It tends to reflect the personality of its person. It's not something one works with or uses for any purpose. Legend says that if a person sees their fylgja their death is immanent.

 

[Cassandra]

If you read what I wrote, I started out asking the OP what he meant. Sure, that's a rational approach.

Why not wait for an answer?

I also took his words "literal," which if he's not familiar with the words and their possible meanings (pretty clear from how he asked), there was a good chance that he was entirely uncertain how the words were being used in the first place, and it therefore the order of the words would be unimportant to him. Turns out, this was the case, but we only found that out after he responded to Quint's request for clarification.

I then discussed some different concepts about animal spirits/spirit animals that could at least prompt him to say, "Oh, it's like this, not like that." He chose to not respond to my question and simply thanked me for my answer.

I was able to notice that.

However, your responses in this thread, and in some others I've read recently, convince me that I really don't want to discuss anything with you.

So why do you?

But, please think on this:
I am an animist; meaning that to me, every thing is/has "spirit."
All material things have/are spirits.
Non-material things, such as ideas, are also spirits.
Therefore, animals ARE spirits.
However, I am also aware sometimes of spirits that don't seem to have bodies, such as I might see (as I have) a "ghostly" deer that doesn't seem to be a solid body. I might call that a "spirit animal," or an "animal spirit." Or, it might be a ghost. Or it might be an ancestor, or a god or goddes, or any one of a number of other entities putting on a form for me to see, but to also show that it is not a physical deer. Or it might be an illusion, a vision, or a hallucination. Does it matter? Over my lifetime, I have had several spirits that have been "guides," or "familiars," or "assistants," or "guardians,"...some seem to be human, others seem to be animal, others seem to be...I don't know...it really doesn't matter what I call them, and it really doesn't matter how other people would categorize them--I do know, however, some of the different ways that different people would or might classify them.

And arguing over which term is right is a waste of time. In my opinion.

My view

An "animal spirit" is the spirit of an animal. A "spirit animal" would be a spirit taking the form of an animal.

From an animist point of view a "spirit animal" would make little sense because it suggests that spirits and and bodies are separated which is a later polytheist idea. The idea of "pure spirits" is rather monotheistic.

It is for instance wrong to believe that if an Indian comes into contact with a spirit of a diseased person this means he now meets the spirit without the body. In Animism which is the natural base of all things spiritual there is no separation between spirit and body, not even after death.

If a Shaman would send a projection of himself as a being to someone this does not create a separation either. We may indeed perceive that as spirits without a body but that is wrong perception, in the same way that if you make a video call to someone, he does not seem to have a real body.

That is an important difference with later thinking. The separation developed in polytheism and became a corner stone in monotheism.

But we leave it at that. I respect your wish.

 

[Cassandra]

Tradition has is that one should never reveal the identity of a spirit animal, it gives those who learn the spirit animal's identity some degree or power (well ... more like influence) over you.

Here is a gross simplification of the concepts: http://www.manataka.org/page236.html#FALCON

Very interesting thanks. I think that with many people we can see that people have a character of a particular animal. Their expressions and attitude are often striking. We still use the comparisons in language.

 

[Raahim]

Their expressions and attitude are often striking. We still use the comparisons in language.

That's true, but sadly (judging from Croatian language) comparisons are only in negative sense.