Social Justice and Islam

[Madhuri]

sorry if my question sounds weird, but what do you mean with your question?
i don't know what 'integral' means i looked it up but no luck in understanding it.
i should spend more time with a dictionary.

It means like- an essential part of.
In other words, social justice seems to be an essential part of Islam.

 

[Gharib]

It means like- an essential part of.
In other words, social justice seems to be an essential part of Islam.

nice. thank you heaps Madhuri.
time to make some posts then.

 

[Gharib]

It seems to me that social justice is integral to Islam. Is this how you read it?

yes. islam is a way of life, in other words, everything about life comes in the one package from what you do in public to what you do in private.

 

[Gharib]

There is as much poverty and oppression in Muslim states as anywhere else.
Perhaps this is because there is as much greed.
Both Christianity and Islam have fine intentions, however neither have lead to universal social justice.

is there greed in the religion or in the people? i can't understand who you are referring to.

islams social justice at present cannot be seen in a universal way, we would need to have a Khalif for that. but since the khalifate doesn't exist it is a matter of individual representation as no country represents the state of islam because every 'islamic' country is first of all run by a President so the first universal islamic rule is broken.

 

[Gharib]

I imagine this thread will quickly descend into the realm of "way back when the four Caliph ruled with utter authority..." No doubt the lack of social justice in Muslim countries will be laid at our feet due to our unrelenting oppression of the "perfect" religion. Though, I could be wrong.

In a system that allows for the beheading of and maiming of its citizens, what could possibly go wrong?

haven't you heard of the terms, lethal injection, electrocution etc. why is islams ways of punishment always look at as wrong. and just so you know, nothing could go wrong, islam ruled for over 1000 years. and during our prophets leadership, i so far can recall only one case of theft thats 1 case of theft in a time span of 20 years, would you like to make a comparison with your civilized country and it's theft crimes for the past 20 years?

 

[Gharib]

I read it like this,Islam has social justice relating to the Medaeval mind from the time of its inception.

you are wrong, nonetheless, everyone can have a say.

i'd like to ask though, how did you come to that perspective?

 

[Gharib]

In both the Quran and Bible ,for example,we see Slavery as acceptable,in the enlightened world Slavery isn't acceptable ,so if you base social justice on an old medaeval book you will be using the fruits of a medaeval mind which conflict with the contemporary idea of social justice.

whats wrong with making a war captive do work for you/the government?
aren't prisoners slaves of the government? do you know how it works?

 

[England my lionheart]

whats wrong with making a war captive do work for you/the government?
aren't prisoners slaves of the government? do you know how it works?

Prisoners of war,how are Women and Children prisoners of war

 

[Gharib]

Prisoners of war,how are Women and Children prisoners of war

weren't the aboriginals of australia, the indians of north america, the indians of india etc treated as slaves, which included men, women, children, the elderly etc by your government? when one nation defeats another then those people fall under the rule of the victor, and must abide by their rules or are prisoners/slaves. make sense?

 

[tumbleweed41]

weren't the aboriginals of australia, the indians of north america, the indians of india etc treated as slaves, which included men, women, children, the elderly etc by your government?

Excusing inhumane practices by pointing out "well, others do it too!" is hardly justification.

 

[England my lionheart]

weren't the aboriginals of australia, the indians of north america, the indians of india etc treated as slaves, which included men, women, children, the elderly etc by your government? when one nation defeats another then those people fall under the rule of the victor, and must abide by their rules or are prisoners/slaves. make sense?

No eselam,you are missing the point,sure Britain did partake in the Slave Trade but Slavery here has been illegal for 200 years,Germany,Italy,Japan were defeated in WWII were they Slaves,thats a big no.

The point being made is social justice built around a book such as the Bible or Qur'an that gives advice on how to treat a Slave will conflict with Slavery is illegal,ok most Muslims don't have Slaves but some do,so IMO,as a book of reference for social justice
it is unsuitable.

 

[Bismillah]

As I said, the very term "slave" is disingenuous manipulation of history...

All we have to do is look at the Prophet's example to see how to handle the problem and see the elegant solutions that is provided.

 

[England my lionheart]

you are wrong, nonetheless, everyone can have a say.

i'd like to ask though, how did you come to that perspective?

Easy eselam,i read the Qur'an or at least a good portion of it,straight away its obvious.

 

[Gharib]

Excusing inhumane practices by pointing out "well, others do it too!" is hardly justification.

i did no such thing, the man asked a question and i made an example he couldn't deny. where have i said that 2 wrongs make a right?

 

[Gharib]

No eselam,you are missing the point,sure Britain did partake in the Slave Trade but Slavery here has been illegal for 200 years,Germany,Italy,Japan were defeated in WWII were they Slaves,thats a big no.

the western concept of a slave is inhumane. and just because 'slavery' has been illegal for 200 years does that mean what it did in the past is not a part of it?

The point being made is social justice built around a book such as the Bible or Qur'an that gives advice on how to treat a Slave will conflict with Slavery is illegal,ok most Muslims don't have Slaves but some do,so IMO,as a book of reference for social justice
it is unsuitable.

in order to make such a statement you must know the islamic stance on slavery and what laws there are regarding it. you shouldn't speak about the islamic concept of slavery and have pictured in your head the torturing of people by britain and similar countries.

 

[Gharib]

Easy eselam,i read the Qur'an or at least a good portion of it,straight away its obvious.

well any verses? let me see.

 

[Hijabihippie]

I am Muslim, I have read the Quran and owning human beings & trafficking in them is wrong.

 

[England my lionheart]

the western concept of a slave is inhumane. and just because 'slavery' has been illegal for 200 years does that mean what it did in the past is not a part of it?

To me any concept of Slave is wrong,of course what my country did in the past was part of deciding it was wrong,Human beings can make the right choice thats why Slavery is illegal now.

in order to make such a statement you must know the islamic stance on slavery and what laws there are regarding it. you shouldn't speak about the islamic concept of slavery and have pictured in your head the torturing of people by britain and similar countries.

I find this quite strange,the Slave trade was dominated by Arabs,mostly Muslims who took people by force into Slavery and were just as merciless as western Traders,yet somehow theres a difference and Britain tortured people,well Slavery is torture for sure and its the same whatever country practices it.

 

[England my lionheart]

well any verses? let me see.

Ok no problem:

• 4:36 "(Show) kindness unto parents, and unto near kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and unto the neighbour who is of kin (unto you) and the neighbour who is not of kin, and the fellow-traveller and the wayfarer and (the slaves) whom your right hands possess."

Showing kindness is nice but it won't change the fact you are a Slave.

4:92 "It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave."

To me theres two thing wrong here,only a believing Slave can be set free and Slavery is wrong full stop,of course they like Britain didn't consider it wrong then.

3:5-6 "And who guard their modesty - Save from their wives or the (slaves) that their right hands possess."

Posses,says it all

• 24:31 "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands</SPAN> or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves."

Slave

24:58 "O ye who believe! Let your slaves, and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence)."

Slave

• 33:25-26 "Allah repulsed the disbelievers in their wrath; they gained no good. Allah averted their attack from the believers. Allah is ever Strong, Mighty. And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.

No big deal at the time,taking captives and making them Slaves was commonplace 1400 years ago.

• 33:50 "O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war."

So having sex with a Slave is ok?

• 33:55 "It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves."

Slaves again,like i said,no big deal at the time,but for reference now it conflicts with how we view Slavery.

 

[tumbleweed41]

i did no such thing, the man asked a question and i made an example he couldn't deny. where have i said that 2 wrongs make a right?

Pointing out the injustices of others to justify the injustices by your prophet.