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Smriti vs Shruti

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Madhuri, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    It seems common knowledge that Smriti (like the Puranas) is considered secondary authority to Shruti texts (like the Vedas).

    But who decided that one is a greater authority than the other?
    And if Smriti is considered more as 'tradition' and not as having divine origin, why is it given any authority? Again though, who decided that Smirit texts are not of divine origin?
     
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  2. Vrindavana Das

    Vrindavana Das Active Member

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    Śrutī śastrās have their source in the Supreme Lord. Smrītī śastrās have been derived from Śrutīs.

    Just like churning milk, we get it's essence - butter; similarly Smrītī texts, being the essence of śrutī śastrās and given to us by the seers and sages like the Rīśī & Munīs, are to be understood as the essence.

    However, people differentiate between the two basis one being the origin of the other, thus considering Smrītī śāstras as less important/inferior to Śrutī śāstrās.

    We shoud understand that both Smrītī & Śrutī are authorized Vedic literature. As both are non-different, they are both one in purpose - devotional service to Supreme Lord.

    Srila Rupa Gosvami writes in his Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu (1.2.101):

    sruti-smriti-puranadi-
    pancaratra-vidhim vina
    aikantiki harer bhaktir
    utpatayaiva kalpate​

    "Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upanishads, Puranas and Narada-pancaratra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."

    Earlier, Vedic knowledge was handed down through an oral tradition, in spiritual disciplic succession, throughout the ages. However, for this age of Kali, when people can hardly remember what they did a week ago, or sometimes even yesterday, how would they be able to remember, analyze, comprehend, or follow the Vedic instructions if they were not in a written form.

    Therefore, Vyasadeva - the literary Incarnation of Supreme Lord, appeared as the person qualified to compile it and form its many branches.

    Vyāsadeva composed the more important Vedic texts, culminating in his own commentary of the Vedic writing in the form of the Srimad-Bhāgavatam. In this way, the one Veda became the four main samhitas, namely the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Vedas. Then came the Brāhmana texts, the Vedānta Sutrās, the Mahābhārata, and then the Purānas, of which Vyāsadeva considered the Bhagāvata Purāna (Srimad Bhagavatam) the most important and complete. In this way, the essence of the Absolute Reality is to be found in the Vedic literature, especially within the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

    Śrimad Bhāgavatam is known as the spotless Purāna. It is said to be the ripe fruit on the tree of Vedic knowledge.

    nigama-kalpa-taror galitaḿ phalaḿ
    śuka-mukhād amṛta-drava-saḿyutam
    pibata bhāgavataḿ rasam ālayaḿ
    muhur aho rasikā bhuvi bhāvukāḥ​

    O expert and thoughtful men, relish Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the mature fruit of the desire tree of Vedic literatures. It emanated from the lips of Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Therefore this fruit has become even more tasteful, although its nectarean juice was already relishable for all, including liberated souls. [S.B. 1.13]
     
    #2 Vrindavana Das, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  3. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    Thanks VD, my next question is:

    Is it possible that Smriti texts can be corrupt or imperfect? I get the impression with some of the Puranas (like the Bhavishya) have been corrupted. Or is this supposed to be impossible?
     
  4. Vrindavana Das

    Vrindavana Das Active Member

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    Bhavishya Purāna is one of the 18 Purānas authored by Srilā Vyāsadeva, who is accepted as the 'literary' incarnation of Supreme Lord. It is an authentic Purāna. It is perfect. We may not be able to understand it to be so, due to our material defects and conditioning, but it is perfect. That is my take on the matter.
     
  5. Gaura Priya

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    I personally believe that Shastra is always evolving in Hinduism. At least as far as I know in the Gaudiya Vaishnava line, not only are the Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavad Gita revered as sacred, but also are Chaitanya-charitamrita and Sri Brahma-samhita, both works of late origin.

    Thus Scriptures are evolving, whether they are shruti or smrti.

    And many Scriptures and Puranas could completely be corrupted... heck, there may be interpolations in many of the Shastras. However, at least as taught by the teachings of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, even among the Scriptures, we should only imbibe the verses with help aid us in our bhakti with God; everything else is unnecessary detail. :)
     
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  6. Satyamavejayanti

    Satyamavejayanti Well-Known Member

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    I would say that the authority of the Vedas is somewhat proclaimed in many puranas and ithihas. So i think the idea of Vedas being more Authoritative comes from the Purans and Ithihas then selves.

    I think that the Sages who wrote about or on the philosophy of the Samhitas, considered them to be more authoritative, and that will be due to the tradition of Vedas not having any historical information in them, so i think it was decided that being the first and foremost litterateur that it would take precedence over other later litterateur.

    and there is the traditional view, which again is somewhat backed by puranas and ithihas, that the Vedas were revealed to risis in the beginning of creation from the supreme being.

    so i think its just a common known fact, or at least it was back during the Vedic age.

    as for any textual corruption in the Veda samhita, please visit site below, it has some good points.

    Textual Corruption in Vedas - Agniveer
     
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  7. Shuddhasattva

    Shuddhasattva Well-Known Member

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    The smritis themselves proclaim their subordinance to the vedas. This is in keeping with the nature of religious traditions; the temporal authority justifies itself with the Vedas, everything else must do so for traditional legitimacy and pedigree.

    As far as divine origin, shruti is taken as directly revealed. Smriti is divine revelation experienced in a particular parampara (lineage), which have fragmented thru the Vedic shakhas (schools of Vedic study/recension). This is a key point: even in the shakhic era of 'Vedic brahminsm' there were many different versions of the Vedas. Only a few versions have survived to find wide circulation in the present era.

    Point is, Vedas are seen as something that was written 'before the before.' It is eternal, ever-existent, and exactly as it is. It is then discovered, revealed, and transcribed into the human language, actually forming the basis for the language itself. It is the universal truth as manifest in human language.

    Smriti emerged in the subsequently fragmenting lineages, going further and further away from the universal viewless gnosis, towards more particular viewpoints onto the infinite. They are the Ved filtered through the human lens, and subject to all manner of human limitations and errors, though they certainly also contain the divine inspiration.
     
    #7 Shuddhasattva, Jul 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
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  8. Pleroma

    Pleroma philalethist

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    The Shruti(Vedas) and the Samhita are the highest authority in discussing Vedic Aryan religion where as smritis like Yajnavalkya Smriti is about Dharmic tradition and it talks about how the Upanayana ritual should be performed and other Agni Kriyas.

    If the smritis came from seers like Yajnavalkya then there is no question of its divine origin but the smritis might be corrupted and other social factors like suppressing freedom of women and other false practices might have been introduced into the Dharma Shastras and we are not sure whether that's what Yajnavalkya actually wrote in his smriti.

    I think Purunas were stories or discussions to make the common better understand the message of the Vedas and the Upanishads.
     
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  9. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    Smriti has no authority in Hinduism. They are as they literally claim they are, remembered, reconstructed. They are basically religion for the common folk of people, attempting to make sense of the Shruti for society, how to best implement dharma in society, for example, how best to approach the supreme being or reality, how to do ones obligatory duties and practices, how to explain the origin of the universe etc so common folk may understand. According to scholars, as recent as Gavin Flood, the Puranas were probably written all over India and were regularly edited. Their original purpose was probably quite harmless to explain Vedic religion to the masses, but as it invairably happens, as soon as you get the masses involved you invite superstition, ritualism, sectarianism and that is exactly what happened. The Smritis, including the Puranas have been readacted, edited, parts added, parts removed so many times they bear absolutely no resemblance to the original puranas. They reflect mainly the ideological and political beliefs of their sects. There is no doubt that they are human authored. This is the reason why they have no authority.

    Shruti, on the other hand chronicles the development of original Vedic religion from early Vedic polytheism and ritual sacrifice tradition representing the old testimant of the Vedic tradition(Purva mimassa) to the new testimant of Vedanta: How the Vedic people went from religious to purely spiritual. The great spiritual principles which are revealed by the Vedanta are not human-authored, but directly experienced by them in their meditations. They call this the Atman or Brahman. They also reveal many other principles and truths like Maya, Samsara, reincarnation, karma, tattvas, yoga. The Vedanta is deeply mystical, and cannot be really understood rationally without hermenuetical analysis and organization of its thought. Attempts at this are made in the Jnana tradition that follow giving rise to all the schools of Indian philosophy, heterodox and orthodox, the oldest of which is Samkhya, which attempt to rederive many Upanishadic philosophies using formal methods, but in the process end up diverging from it. It is not until Advaita, though, that a true systematic and authentic demonstration of Vedanta is achieved and thus Advaita represents the acme of Vedic thought. It is the highest and most sublime realization of Hinduism. The culmination of Vedic thought and the Shruti tradition.

    Simply put, if you are really following Shruti, you would be an Advaitin. If you are following Smriti(Puranas, Gita etc) you are a Dvatist or a variant of it. This is why you often find Dvaitists profusely quote from the Puranas and the Gita, but very rarely from the Upanishads.
     
    #9 Surya Deva, Aug 29, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
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  10. En'me

    En'me RightBehindEveryoneElse

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    It is obviously not perfect, has been written recently and has been edited, as have most of the Puranas been.

    Factually, it's hard to accept that divine knowledge of God would be handed down in simple sources such a smriti, which can be easily interpolated and were interpolated. That is why, in my opinion, shruti are the way to go, since any tinkering with a mantra can immediatly be noticed by a yogi learned in Vedanga.
     
  11. Shuddhasattva

    Shuddhasattva Well-Known Member

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    Although you'll often find Svetasvatara 5.9 misquoted and misapprehended.
     
  12. Vrindavana Das

    Vrindavana Das Active Member

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    Please provide 'proof' for your claim above. Someone saying that they have been edited is not a proof. Till then, let us take the scriptures as not-edited.

    Purānas were authored by Srilā Vyāsedeva about 5,000 years ago, as in Kali-yuga (present iron age), humans have a short span of life, poor memory and low intelligence. Thus, Srīlā Vyāsadeva, who is an accepted 'literary incarnation' of Supreme Lord - Kṛṣṇa, wrote the Vedic knowledge (Śrutī) into Purānas (Smrītī). Srīlā Vyāsadeva is an incarnation of Supreme Lord, this is mentioned in the Bhāgavata Purāna. You can learn more here: Srila Vyasadeva

    Scriptures written by an ordinary conditioned soul cannot be accepted as an authority. A conditioned soul has four defects, because of which he cannot deliver the perfect scriptural knowledge.

    These are:

    (1) bhrama -- he is certain to commit mistakes;
    (2) pramada -- he is subject to illusion;
    (3) vipralipsa -- he has a propensity to cheat others;
    (4) karana-apatava -- his senses are imperfect.

    No one with these four imperfections can deliver perfect knowledge.

    Vedic knowledge is infallible because it comes down through the perfect disciplic succession of spiritual masters, beginning with the Lord Himself. Since He spoke the first word of Vedic knowledge, the source of this knowledge is transcendental. The words spoken by the Lord are called apauruṣeya, which indicates that they are not delivered by any mundane person.

    This is confirmed in the following way:

    bhrama, pramada, vipralipsa, karanapatava
    isvarera vakye nahi dosha ei saba​

    "The material defects of mistakes, illusions, cheating and sensory inefficiency do not exist in the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead". [C.C. Adi 7.107]

    Like you say, "any tinkering with a mantra can immediatly be noticed by a yogi learned in Vedanta", similarly, the self-realized souls would know if there is any editing/interpolation, by any conditioned soul, in the transcendental and infallible scriptures.

    Till such time, let us accept the scriptures "as they are". That is my take on the matter.
     
    #12 Vrindavana Das, Aug 29, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  13. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    I know I'm among a minority, but from what I've read so far from the Updanishads I interpret the middle view- the Dvaitadvaita view or both oneness and difference.
     
  14. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    There are some clear smoking gun proofs the Puranas have been edited right up to the 19th century:

    The Bhavishya Purana mentions Queen Victoria and other events in the 19th century like the British Raj, but does not mention events in the 20th century and beyond.

    The Puranas mention temples and shrines, many of which do not exist until the the late middle ages. Here is a resource which show the dates of different temples built in India:

    Andhra Pradesh

    16c AD

    Sas Bahu Temple - Udaipur
    Rajasthan

    Vishnu

    10C AD

    Thousand Pillar Temple - Warangal
    Andhra Pradesh

    12C AD

    Galta Temple - Jaipur
    Rajasthan

    Siva

    600 AD

    Tirupati Temple - Tirupati
    Andhra Pradesh



    12C AD

    Nathdwara Temple - Udaipur
    Rajasthan

    Krishna

    17C AD

    Dwarkadhish Temple - Dwarka
    Gujarat

    15C AD (Reconstruct)

    Ekambareswarar Temple - Kanchipuram
    Tamil Nadu

    Siva

    600 AD

    Somnath Temple - Patan
    Gujarat



    480 -767 AD

    Jain Temple - Chennai
    Tamil Nadu

    1500 AD

    Sthaneshwar Mahadev Temple - Kurukshetra
    Haryana

    16C AD



    Perur Patteeswaraswamy Temple - Coimbatore
    Tamil Nadu

    siva

    11-13c AD

    Chamunda Devi - Kangra
    Himachal Pradesh

    Kali



    13C AD

    Gangaikondas Cholapuram - Chidambaram
    Tamil Nadu 1020 AD

    Siva

    1020 AD

    Amarnath Temple - Pahalgam
    Jammu & Kashmir

    Siva ice Lingam
    Islamic connection “Buta Malik”

    Yatra started in 1850 AD

    Kailasanathar Temple - Kanchipuram
    Tamil Nadu

    siva

    685-705 AD

    Pallavas

    Raghunath Temple - Jammu
    Jammu & Kashmir



    1835-1860 by Maharaja Gulab Singh

    Ulahalanda Perumal Temple - Kanchipuram
    Tamil Nadu

    visnu

    6-7C AD

    Pallavas

    Vaishno Devi Temple - Jammu
    Jammu & Kashmir

    1537 AD



    Parthasarathy Temple - Chennai
    Tamil Nadu

    Visnu

    8C AD

    Bull Temple - Bangalore
    Karnataka



    578 AD





    Varadaraja Temple - Chennai
    Tamil Nadu

    Visnu



    1053 AD

    Cave Temples - Badami
    Karnataka

    16C AD

    Ananthapura Lake Temple - Kasaragod
    Kerala

    visnu



    800 AD

    Guruvayoor Temple - Trichur
    Kerala

    Krishna

    10-12 C AD



    Kaviyoor Rock Cut Temple - Tiruvalla
    Kerala

    Siva

    900 AD

    Sabarimala Temple - Pathanamthitta
    Kerala



    18 C AD

    Mata Tripureswari Temple - Agartala
    Tripura

    1501 AD

    Tiruvalla Temple - Alappuzha
    Kerala

    Vishnu

    ?

    Bhoramdeo temple - Raipur
    Chhattisgarh

    1100 AD

    Omkareshwar Temple - Omkareshwara
    Madhya Pradesh

    11 C AD?

    Pemayangtse Monastery - Gangtok
    Sikkim

    1700 AD

    Orcha Temples - Orchha
    Madhya Pradesh16c

    16 C AD

    Ranchhodraiji Dakor - Ahmedabad
    Gujarat

    Visnu

    1772 AD

    Kailash Temple - Aurangabad
    Maharashtra

    757 – 775 AD

    Hayagriva Temple - Guwahati
    Assam visnu

    1550 AD

    Mahalakshami Temple - Kolhapur
    Maharashtra

    600-700 AD



    Bhojeshwar Temple - Bhopal
    Madhya Pradesh

    siva



    1010-1053 AD

    Jagannath Temple - Puri
    Orissa

    12C AD

    Baldeva Dauji Temple - Mathura
    Uttar Pradesh 1535 AD



    1535 AD

    Lingaraja Temple - Bhubaneshwar
    Orissa



    617 657 AD

    Adi Sankara Shrine - Chikmagalur
    Karnataka 9c



    9C AD

    Mukteswara Temple - Bhubaneshwar
    Orissa 950 AD

    950 AD

    Hoysaleswara - Hassan
    Karnataka 12c

    Siva

    12C AD

    Sun Temple - Konark
    Orissa

    13C AD

    Keerthinarayana Temple - Mysore
    Karnataka 1117 AD

    Visnu

    1117 AD

    Eklingji Temple - Udaipur
    Rajasthan

    15C AD

    Keshava Temple - Mysore
    Karnataka 1268 AD

    1268 AD

    Chidambaram Temple - Chidambaram
    Tamil Nadu

    5C AD

    Gulbarga Fort Mosque - Bijapur
    Karnataka

    1367 AD

    Kanchipuram Temples - Chennai
    Tamil Nadu



    6 C AD

    Brihadeeshwara Temple - Thanjavur
    Tamil Nadu 985-1013 AD



    985-1013 AD

    Mahabalipuram Temples - Mahabalipuram
    Tamil Nadu

    830-1100 AD

    Sree Padmanabha Swamy Temple - Thiruvananthapuram
    Kerala 1600

    Visnu

    1600 AD

    Meenakshi Temple - Madurai
    Tamil Nadu



    16-18 C AD

    Srikalahasti Temple - Chittoor
    Andhra Pradesh 16c

    Siva

    16C AD

    Rameshwaram Temples - Rameshwaram
    Tamil Nadu



    17C AD

    Kiliroor Kunninmel Temple - Kottayam
    Kerala 1200 AD

    Parvati



    1200 AD

    Thanjavur Temples - Thanjavur
    Tamil Nadu

    Raja Raja Cholan built

    1003-1010 AD

    Suryanarayana Temple, Arasavalli - Sri Kakulam
    Andhra Pradesh 7c

    7C AD






    Vishwanath Temple - Varanasi
    Uttar Pradesh

    1627/ rebuilt 1776

    Thrikovu Shiva Temple, Cochin - Kochi
    Kerala 15c

    Siva



    15 C AD

    Badrinath Temple - Badrinath
    Uttaranchal

    Sankara built this



    9C AD

    Sirkazhi Sattanathar Temple - Nagappattinam
    Tamil Nadu 10c

    siva

    10 C AD

    Kedranath Temple - Kedarnath
    Uttaranchal

    8C AD

    Sree Subrahmanya Swami Temple - Mavelikkara
    Kerala 1014 AD

    Murugan



    1014 AD

    Srisailam Temple - Kurnool
    Andhra Pradesh



    1404 AD

    Augharnath Mandir - Meerut
    Uttar Pradesh 1000 AD

    Freedom fighters

    1000 AD

    Sri Bhagavati Temple - Parshem
    Goa

    1600 AD

    Sree Yandra Saneeswarar Temple - Tiruvannamalai
    Tamil Nadu

    1535 AD

    Sri Mahalakshmi Temple - Panaji
    Goa

    1413 AD

    Sri Mahalasa Temple - Mangueshi
    Goa 17c

    17c AD

    Sun Temple - Modhera
    Gujarat



    1026-1027 AD

    Mahadev Temple - Panaji
    Goa 12c

    12 C AD

    Chintpurni Temple - Una
    Himachal Pradesh

    Devi

    19C AD

    Shankeshwar Temple - Modhera
    Gujarat 1656-1686 AD

    1556-1686 AD

    Mansa Devi Temple - Panchkula
    Haryana

    1811 – 1815 AD

    Baij Nath Temple - Kausani
    Uttaranchal 1204 AD

    Siva

    1204 AD

    Gundala Mallikarjuna Swami Temple - Vijayawada
    Andhra Pradesh

    10C AD

    Ettumanoor Temple - Kottayam
    Kerala 16c

    16C AD

    Hadimba Devi Temple - Manali
    Himachal Pradesh

    1553 AD

    Lokanarkavu Temple - Kozhikode
    Kerala 5c AD

    durga

    5C AD

    Balasundari Temple - Nahan
    Himachal Pradesh

    1573 AD

    Parasurameswara Temple - Bhubaneshwar
    Orissa

    Siva

    4C AD?

    Sudh Mahadev - Patnitop
    Jammu & Kashmir

    855- 883 AD

    Leaning Temple - Sambalpur
    Orissa
    Siva

    1670 AD

    Avantipur Temple - Avantipur
    Jammu & Kashmir

    Avantivarman built

    855 – 883 AD

    Bramheswara Temple - Bhubaneshwar
    Orissa Siva

    11C AD

    Chamundeswari Temple - Mysore
    Karnataka

    Chamundi Devi



    12C AD

    Khirachora Gopinath Temple - Balasore
    Orissa

    Krishna

    650 AD

    Channakeshava Temple - Belur
    Karnataka

    1117 AD

    Govind Devji Temple - Jaipur
    Rajasthan

    Krishna

    1670 AD

    Krishna Temple - Hampi
    Karnataka



    1513 AD

    Govind Devji Temple - Jaipur
    Rajasthan

    Krishna

    1050 AD

    Hazara Temple - Hampi
    Karnataka

    15C AD

    Rudranath Temple - Gaurikund
    Uttaranchal 8c



    8C AD

    Gavi Gangadeshwara Temple - Bangalore
    Karnataka

    siva

    16C AD

    Ananta Vasudeva Temple - Bhubaneshwar
    Orissa 1278 AD

    Visnu

    1278 AD

    Deogarh Temple - Gwalior
    Madhya Pradesh

    8-17 C AD


    Puranas and their dates

    All the Puranas mention there are 18 Maha-Puranas, clearly showing all Puranas have been edited to update the number of Puranas

    The Puranas mention the genealogy of actual kings that ruled India, such as the Vishnu Purana:

    Vishnu Purana:
    This work contains the geneology of the Gupta kings, and therefore could not have been finalized before 320 AD. Hazra is positive the date of this Purana is between 275 – 325 AD, while Winternitz agrees it is not later than the 400’s. (Jaiswal, 17) Others agree it was probably written between 300 – 400 AD. (sdmart.com) Raychaudhuri agrees that it was probably written between 320 – 355 AD, and goes further by saying that the puranas that relate the Krishna story cannot be placed much before the Gupta kings, since the geneology of those kings is included. (Raychaudhuri, 91, 42)


    The lists of avatars are given in the Puranas which contain historical people, such as the Buddha, hence the very earliest possible date we can give to these Puranas is after 400BCE.

    Based on all internal evidence we can find in the Puranas, scholars have been able to fix possible dates to the Puranas:

    1. Vishnu Purana (4th C.)

    2. Brahmanda Purana (4th C.)

    3. Vayu Purana (5th C.)

    4. Bhagvata Purana (6/7th C.)

    5. Kurma Purana (7th C.)

    6. Agni Purana (8th C.)

    7. Narada Purana (10th C.) )

    8. Brahma Purana (10th C)

    9. Garuda Purana (10th C.)

    10. Skanda Purana (11/12th C.)

    11. Padma Purana (12/15th C.)


    It is fanatical to maintain the religious story that the eternal Ved Vyassa edited and compiled all the Puranas in 3000BCE given the obvious historical anachronismss. Please don't insult your intelligence like this. It gives bhaktas a very bad reputation, you will start to be seen as religious fundamentalists like Christian creationists by other people. Hinduism is not a fundamentalist religion, though Hindus like you seem to have turned it into one.
     
    #14 Surya Deva, Aug 29, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  15. Vrindavana Das

    Vrindavana Das Active Member

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    Bhavīśya Purāna.

    Bhavīśya = Future
    Purāna = 'of ancient times'

    As the name suggests, it is an ancient text foretelling the events of the future. Like you say, it has names of Christ, East India Trading Company, Queen Victoria etc. Bhavīśya Purāna was first printed during the time of British rule. Why events of a later time were destroyed/missing in the printed text, whose interest would be harmed if it said "India will become independent in 1947" etc., is anybody's guess.

    Also, this does not mean that the verses have been tampered with. It just means that certain portions have been destroyed/are missing.

    As for temples and shrines, which do not exist till late middle ages, it only shows the correctness of Bhavīśya Purāna in predicting the events of future. Your information only proves Bhavīśya Purāna to be correct.
     
  16. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    This is why I said it contains scattered historical events in India's history right up until the 19th century, but nothing beyond that. It does not forecast important events like the independence of India, the partition of India, the Indian wars with Pakistan and China, the assassination of Indira Gandhi, India's nuclear weapons why? Because conveniently everything after the 19th century has gone missing or the ancient forecaster could not prophicize any further, or because there was no more further editing of the Bhavaishya Purana after the 19th century?

    We all know what the rational explanation is. Your credulity knows no bounds.

    The temples and shrines are not mentioned in the Bhavisya Purana o dear simple one, they are mentioned in all other Puranas, which are not 'Bhavisya Purana' which show to us rational and intelligent people that the Puranas were edited after these temples were built. The Puranas also mention the entire genealogies, meaning lineages of kings that ruled in India up until the Gupta kings, thus clearly showing us rational human beings that these Puranas were composed after the Gupta period.
     
    #16 Surya Deva, Aug 29, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2012
  17. Shuddhasattva

    Shuddhasattva Well-Known Member

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    Part or partless?
     
  18. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess
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    Assuming I understand your meaning correctly, my answer is 'part'.
    But just in case, what do you mean exactly?
     
  19. Vrindavana Das

    Vrindavana Das Active Member

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    You say that even after you know that it has been named 'Bhaviśya Purāna' - the text foretelling future? Sorry, but what you are suggesting, I am not finding it rational.

    That asides, if 'prophesies of Nostradamus' is acceptable (from a global perspective), why not 'Bhaviśya Purāna'? :shrug:

    To my simple mind, a 'non-science' background person, challenging, denying and ridiculing the 'Einstein's theory of relativity', is a little...difficult to comprehend.:eek:
     
    #19 Vrindavana Das, Aug 30, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  20. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    Who said they are accepted from a global perspective? Nostradamus so-called prophecies are highly cryptic statements which people read all kinds of events into. Such as "Two brothers will fall" is read as predicting 9/11.

    In any case the most rational explanation is the Bhavishya Purana has been edited. People are not stupid to accept such extraordinary explanations that this is a ancient book of prophecy which conveniently stops giving prophecies after its last edition in the 19th century. You are being irrational and this is clear for everybody to see.

    What on earth are you saying? What's Einstein theory of relativity got to do with the fact that the Puranas mention historical people, historical buildings? They mention temples that were not constructed till the late middle ages, some as late as the 16th century. They mention kings that reigned in India to 300AD. Hence they clearly have been constantly edited throughout history. We can also quite confidently fix the dates of composition too.
     
    #20 Surya Deva, Aug 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2012
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