Sin ~ Think about it

[MatthewA]

if that is what you believe @Shadow Wolf : I have no retrot; will respect and move forward.

 

[InChrist]

Jesus didn't fulfill at the prophecies though. He didn't end wars, he didn't bring the Jews home, he didn't establish a Jewish state or bring the Messianic Age, he did not have any sovereignty, he didn't restore full observance of the Law,

Isaiah 2:4
So how could he have fulfilled prophecy when there is prophecy unfulfilled?

Don’t you think some of the prophecies connected with the events you have listed above are concerning future, end time events? I don’t think the scriptures indicate all the prophecies were to be fulfilled in the lifetime of Jesus before the cross. Israel, miraculously is now back in the land as a nation in partial fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus didn't fulfill at the prophecies though. He didn't end wars, he didn't bring the Jews home, he didn't establish a Jewish state or bring the Messianic Age, he did not have any sovereignty, he didn't restore full observance of the Law, Isaiah 2:4
So how could he have fulfilled prophecy when there is prophecy unfulfilled?

Jesus did fulfill that temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law for ancient Israel I find at Romans 10:4.
Yes, wars are Not yet ended because as Isaiah 11:3-4 wrote it will be the 'executional words from Jesus' mouth' that will put an end to wickedness. This executional time is set future at the coming time of Revelation 19:14-15.
Jesus said the Jewish house (of worship) was abandoned by his God at Matthew 23:38.
So, since Pentecost we are speaking about a 'spiritual house of worship' Not by fleshly Jewish descent - Romans 2:28-29
Not a national Jewish state again, but the spiritual Christian congregation - 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 4:17
The Christian congregation is a 'spiritual nation' without borders or boundaries and Not located on any map.
The Messianic Age does Not start until after the soon coming time of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
We have Not yet seen Jesus' Glory time as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The coming 'great tribulation' as found at Revelation 7:14; Revelation 7:9.
And after Armageddon ( <-the war to end all wars - Psalms 46:9 )
Then, through Jesus, as Prince of Peace, we will see the fulfillment as found at Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
Then the nations will Not learn war any more - Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3-4.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes. His claim of "only two commandments" is in error as Jesus himself said he did not come to do away with the Laws or Prophets and it is punishable to teach the lessening or changing of those things, that not a dot or tittle of them will change until all things have been fulfilled and Jesus did give some additional things needing to be fulfilled which inherently means not all things have been fulfilled.

Under the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law for only ancient Israel was the claim of only two commandments on which that Law stood. Jesus fulfilled that old temporary Law - Romans 10:4
Christians are under the 'Law of Christ' - Galatians 6:2
Jesus gives us a 'New commandment' as found at John 13:34-35.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are Now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Don’t you think some of the prophecies connected with the events you have listed above are concerning future, end time events? I don’t think the scriptures indicate all the prophecies were to be fulfilled in the lifetime of Jesus before the cross. Israel, miraculously is now back in the land as a nation in partial fulfillment of prophecy.

Don't you think that's moving the goalposts? The Messiah isn't prophesized to do it during "round 2." They are supposed to be fulfilled then. Not moving things around so a failed Messiah can have a second chance at getting them all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus did fulfill that temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law for ancient Israel I find at Romans 10:4.
Yes, wars are Not yet ended because as Isaiah 11:3-4 wrote it will be the 'executional words from Jesus' mouth' that will put an end to wickedness. This executional time is set future at the coming time of Revelation 19:14-15.
Jesus said the Jewish house (of worship) was abandoned by his God at Matthew 23:38.
So, since Pentecost we are speaking about a 'spiritual house of worship' Not by fleshly Jewish descent - Romans 2:28-29
Not a national Jewish state again, but the spiritual Christian congregation - 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 4:17
The Christian congregation is a 'spiritual nation' without borders or boundaries and Not located on any map.
The Messianic Age does Not start until after the soon coming time of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
We have Not yet seen Jesus' Glory time as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The coming 'great tribulation' as found at Revelation 7:14; Revelation 7:9.
And after Armageddon ( <-the war to end all wars - Psalms 46:9 )
Then, through Jesus, as Prince of Peace, we will see the fulfillment as found at Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
Then the nations will Not learn war any more - Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3-4.

That elaborate web doesn't fulfill prophecy. It's a straightforward thing. When you have to jumble things around and rely more on what was written to insert Jesus in that role than what was written prior to about that role, it seems a very limited position that deliberately ignores outside sources. Such is how we can assert Revelations is about Rome, not future events.
What Is the Book of Revelation About?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Under the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law for only ancient Israel was the claim of only two commandments on which that Law stood. Jesus fulfilled that old temporary Law - Romans 10:4
Christians are under the 'Law of Christ' - Galatians 6:2
Jesus gives us a 'New commandment' as found at John 13:34-35.
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are Now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.

Do you deny Jesus said he dod not come to change or do away with the Laws and Prophets?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Do you deny Jesus said he did not come to change or do away with the Laws and Prophets?

Yes, Jesus did Not change or do away with the Law and Prophets but 'fulfilled' that old Law - see Matthew 5:17.
The temporary Constitution of the old Mosaic Law was only for one nation, the nation of ancient Israel.
That old Law for those Jews was leading up to Christ according to Galatians 3:24.
Please also see: Romans 7:6; 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:13-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................. Such is how we can assert Revelations is about Rome, not future events................

I find the setting for Revelation is set for our day or time frame according to Revelation 1:10.
The word revelation means a revealing, and the book of Revelation is a revealing about a happy earth-wide future.
This is why we are ALL invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring ' healing ' to -> Earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.
Healing as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Don't you think that's moving the goalposts? The Messiah isn't prophesized to do it during "round 2." They are supposed to be fulfilled then. Not moving things around so a failed Messiah can have a second chance at getting them all.

I find reading at Luke 19:11-15 the ' goal post ' was already moved, so to speak, to the future.
Jesus, as the nobleman, would journey to a far country (heaven) before he would later return in Kingdom Glory - Matthew 25:31-33,37,40

If God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44) would have been established in the first century we would Not be here.
The passing of time has allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
The international declaring about God's kingdom (Matthew 24:14) needed to first be done world wide as it is today.

 

[InChrist]

Don't you think that's moving the goalposts? The Messiah isn't prophesized to do it during "round 2." They are supposed to be fulfilled then. Not moving things around so a failed Messiah can have a second chance at getting them all.

No, I don’t think it’s moving the goalposts. I believe God’s revelation to man has been progressive throughout history and the prophecies are unfolding according to God’s timeline, not ours.

There are prophecies which were given to the nation of Israel and those given later to the church or Body of Christ. There are prophecies concerning the birth, life, death and resurrection of the Messiah and then those concerning His return to rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years of peace. Some refer to Him as a humble Servant others as the coming all powerful King of Kings. These cannot be reconciled into one episode, event, or appearance on earth. Some biblical prophecies gave and are happening before our eyes, others are future, likely soon.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I find the setting for Revelation is set for our day or time frame according to Revelation 1:10.
The word revelation means a revealing, and the book of Revelation is a revealing about a happy earth-wide future.
This is why we are ALL invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring ' healing ' to -> Earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.
Healing as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

Except Biblical scholars widely agree it was written about Rome. Such prophecy and doomsday writings were how people bypassed Roman censors. But not only that, the book specifically says it is to those churches of Asia Minor that are listed. That's about as clear as it gets.

There are prophecies which were given to the nation of Israel and those given later to the church or Body of Christ. There are prophecies concerning the birth, life, death and resurrection of the Messiah and then those concerning His return to rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years of peace. Some refer to Him as a humble Servant others as the coming all powerful King of Kings. These cannot be reconciled into one episode, event, or appearance on earth. Some biblical prophecies gave and are happening before our eyes, others are future, likely soon.

See above.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Heres a question for the thread:
Are all sins forgivable?

 

[MatthewA]

In Christianity sin has to deal with a humans heart.

Here is what Jesus Christ said about the human heart.

And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

With this use of scripture the question is: Is this true about human nature that Jesus Christ is speaking about: Are these the thoughts that come the heart of man? Is Jesus Christ lying about these things? They are also what Jesus Christ had come to die for; because of being sinless; He never had these thoughts from the heart.

Did Jesus Christ die for these sins of what man is unable to get rid of? The answer is Yes: He did pay for all of the world: it's greed, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, and evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness for all people.

The question is now: Do you believe that He paid for those sins, and does it resonate with-in your own heart to believe; and to look and seek towards the Lord Jesus Christ?

I believe that all sins are forgivable except one according to the bible; and that is the sin of unbelief; those who decide and make the conscience choice not to believe; (Though all of the sins listed above are paid for - there is no rest for those who do not believe according to Christian scriptures). The sins a Christian will commit is when the believer fails to be loving towards God, or fails to be loving towards others.

I do not know what other people believe on these things but this from the understanding of looking and see what the bible has to say about sin. Sin was paid for on the Cross; once and for all people; so those are grateful for what Jesus Christ had done may go and have a relationship with God and enjoy all the promises provided to the Christian. Though life is still a struggle with all of its ups and downs.

Every decision in life is a choice and I am far from forcing anyone here to accept what is freely offered upon the table. That is a decision you have to make yourself. Also check the bible and see what it has to say about these things, and do not just believe me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes: He did pay for all of the world: it's greed, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, and evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness for all people.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. --Matthew 12:31

 

[MatthewA]

Yes I mentioned that unbelief is a sin. You did a good job in finding it. That is what that scripture is talking about is to those who are resisting the Holy Spirit. The sins are forgiven; you are forgiven right now as we are talking : the question is do you believe in accept that?

That is a personal choice and up to you.

This will be my finally statement unless anymore questions about anything and they may or might not get answered.

Thank you for helping me out @Shadow Wolf you and your family take care.

 

[InChrist]

Except Biblical scholars widely agree it was written about Rome. Such prophecy and doomsday writings were how people bypassed Roman censors. But not only that, the book specifically says it is to those churches of Asia Minor that are listed. That's about as clear as it gets.

See above.

Some scholars agree it was about Rome.
Many other scholars consider that biblical prophecies have dual fulfillment; historical and future, even including the churches mentioned in Revelation. With just a superficial reading of the book it’s easy to see that much of it didn’t occur in during 70 A.D. at the time of the Roman Empire, as a lot of the prophecies refer to global catastrophic events.

That’s my perspective and I think it’s supported by the scriptures, but of course you are free to have your views.

 

[Clara Tea]

Remember decades ago when there were redemption centers to cash in, redeem your stamps for something? I simply do not believe Jesus' whole purpose to have been a scapegoat for the sin of the world. I do agree we are all sinners, we are a Church of sinners. Jesus' answer to Peter when asked how many times must he forgive,70 x 70.

That's 4,900 times of forgiveness (sets the bar rather high for getting into heaven).

 

[Clara Tea]

Yes I mentioned that unbelief is a sin. You did a good job in finding it. That is what that scripture is talking about is to those who are resisting the Holy Spirit. The sins are forgiven; you are forgiven right now as we are talking : the question is do you believe in accept that?

That is a personal choice and up to you.

This will be my finally statement unless anymore questions about anything and they may or might not get answered.

Thank you for helping me out @Shadow Wolf you and your family take care.

If unbelief is a sin, the religion should be able to get people to believe, especially if they say that sinners will burn in the fires of hell for all eternity.

Hmm....getting burned for all eternity or believe, I wonder which is worse?

But what if it isn't a sin, but all this is made up to get more converts? Maybe the religion has been propagated by fear?

Who rules by fear? Satan does.

But if the world was ruled by Satan, we'd see signs of it.....wars, homelessness, debt, greed, pollution, Global Warming and lies (including lies about Global Warming). We might well conclude that Satan is in charge, and all those who think that they are worshiping God are really worshiping Satan.

 

[MatthewA]

If unbelief is a sin, the religion should be able to get people to believe, especially if they say that sinners will burn in the fires of hell for all eternity.

Hmm....getting burned for all eternity or believe, I wonder which is worse?

But what if it isn't a sin, but all this is made up to get more converts? Maybe the religion has been propagated by fear?

Who rules by fear? Satan does.

But if the world was ruled by Satan, we'd see signs of it.....wars, homelessness, debt, greed, pollution, Global Warming and lies (including lies about Global Warming). We might well conclude that Satan is in charge, and all those who think that they are worshiping God are really worshiping Satan.

Being this a subjective thing Clara Tea.

It is a free choice to reject the notion of Jesus Christ and his proclaiming of being the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to Father except by and through Him. It is also impossible to please God without faith. So thus faith ~ is that of sin; anything not done in faith to a Christian is a sin. ~ According to scriptures.

Who says people are going to be burning in hell forever? That can not be true is Hell/Hades/Sheo'l gave up the dead in it according to the Revelation and everyone that once was in Hell has already done been judged. Along with Hell and Satan being defeated thrown in the lake of fire already which was only made for Satan and his demons. Many people get the places confused anyway, and make a big deal about it. What is the truth of the matter is the question on these things. (it possible for me to be wrong but I do not believe the bible says anything different about it)

If Satan has been defeated; Can Human beings rule by fear?
That person dominates and controls other people; they run their cult or clique by and through force, and fear. You bet we can and also can anxiety from with-in also us cause us to have fear where love cast out fear.

I believe that Satan has been defeated, and talking about the signs of what you are seeing is being told to the disciples in the context of the verses from my understanding.

I do not believe people go to place of Hell/She'ol anymore. Believers go into the Kingdom of Heaven after life.
Unbelievers are placed outside the Kingdom of Heaven after life.

According to Revelation 22. Do you have any thoughts about this Clara? Or rebuttal?

Though I could be wrong; these are my beliefs on the subjects.