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Simon the Stumbling Stone

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by wizanda, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    If you search the Bible for “satan rebuke” and put on partial matches, you will come up with two verses across the whole of the Bible.
    After Yeshua explained to the disciples how he would fulfill prophecy by cutting off Jerusalem and divorcing Israel (Zec 11).
    This was prophesied for him to do so, so when he called Simon satan its clear prophetic fulfillment, that with the name change to “jesus” it makes most people miss it.
    Now many claim this is talking about Yeshua the high priest, who rebuilt the second temple in Ezra. Yet within the prophetic implications, it’s clearly defined by Yeshua; with the references to angels in the sentences making it clear it’s more than just a repeat of what happened.
    The fact the end line of Zechariah chapter 3, has this statement and Yeshua clearly called Simon the stone for a reason implies he knew something we do not; which is most possibly Simon peter (stone) was a Pharisee, which is why he was allowed to preach to the Sanhedrin at the start of Acts.
    So when your told “Simon says put your hands on your head, Simon says touch your toes, Simon says follow the synagogue of satan, don’t believe everything you're told by someone Yeshua defined as a Stumbling Stone of the nations. He even stated how satan had use for Simon as wheat and that Simon has authority over the gates of hell; not the gates of heaven, as the church established by him reiterated.

    This article is from here. :innocent:
     
  2. b.finton

    b.finton In the Unity of Faith

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    Quantum strand. :)

    b.
     
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  3. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    One instance and Peter becomes something other than a friend of righteousness in your opinion. Is this accurate?

    Satan would have us do what WE think is right. Peter told Jesus that he should not have to suffer. He didn't campaign for it. So the writer of Mark 8:33 and of Matthew 16:23 used the instance to teach a lesson. The lesson is that sometimes God's will does not look like the best option but to disagree with it is to be like satan.

    It is not right to assign prophecy of future things to scriptures imo.
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yeshua argued with Simon at multiple occasions within the gospels, having to correct him on fundamental points.

    Plus Yeshua called him stone (petros), so i trust Yeshua's understanding more than the churches, created by what Yeshua labeled as false to begin with. ;)
    In other words, satan has a use for Simon.

    From the books of peter, and Acts, we can clearly see Simon didn't understand the prophecies Yeshua related to the disciples.... So the evidence speaks for its self. :innocent:
     
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  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Another Article from here:

    Now to many this may be hard to believe, yet all I am doing is showing what the Bible shows. Peter means stone and Yeshua said he would build upon this rock, now according to Isaiah this would mean that Simon Peter (stone), laid the stone of stumbling and the rock of offense, from what Yeshua said he was.
    I still can't fully get my head around this my self, as you would expect that as Simon Peter spent so long with Yeshua, he would have known the truth. Yet from his epistles he backs up Paul, he calls Yeshua the savior, when in fact God is, and he preaches Christ as a sacrifice. So presumably this is where both John and Paul got a lot of the ideas, which they then preached. Yet I will show all the points that Yeshua and the bible say about this matter. Now I know that both Paul and Simon Peter said Yeshua is the stone of stumbling and the rock of offense. Yet Yeshua him self named Simon, Peter in Hebrew or in Chaldee Cephas, meaning stone and then said he would build upon this rock.
    So was Yeshua referring to here knowing that it said his name and symbolically naming Simon the stone (petros/peter), yet due to the name change, most won't have realized the context of this verse.
    To start with from this passage, if we look at the start, as many do not know the Hebrew meaning of the word, they assume Yeshua was saying Peters name in verse 18, yet actual he says "you are" and is referring to Simon, as an object as such, As Peter means stone.
    This is the only other point in the Bible, where both the words stone and rock are in the same passage. So the only logical explanation is that Simon Peter was the stone of offense and a rock of stumbling as he mis-taught the Jews after Yeshua's death. Now I am well aware that both Paul and Simon Peter said that Yeshua was this, yet I trust Yeshua more then both of them and Yeshua clearly tells us Simon is. Also the following verse within the passage helps make it more apparent as Yeshua explains why Simon is a stone.
    After just calling Simon Peter (stone) both things that pertain to the verse in Isaiah, Simon tries to change the wishes of Yeshua. Now Yeshua responds in such away that I find surprising to one of his disciples or friends. To call Simon Satan and tell him that he does not mind the things of God yet of men make this picture a bit clearer.
    Now according to Revelations, Yeshua had the spirit of prophecy and here we have a clear example as he tells Simon that Satan wishes to have him. Now It is apparent that this is concerning the fact, that Simon is about to deny Yeshua and after come back to faith. Yet the problem is Simon Peter came back to faith, yet in faith in Yeshua and not in God, he taught people to have faith in man, which is not what Yeshua preached or showed. When you understand the whole concept of what Isaiah was referring to, about it not being a conspiracy, yet a snare. All of this pertains to what happen with Yeshua and how people would not see the snare that was right in front of them. A clear explanation is that the Bible teaches to have no idols, through what Simon Peter, Paul and John preached, they turned Yeshua into an idol. This then breaks the second commandment, as to have no image of God, and to only worship God alone, else you break the first commandment as well. Hopefully this is clear and I will go over each point individually, where there is conflict from what they preached.
     
  6. b.finton

    b.finton In the Unity of Faith

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    Cephas (Kepa) = pebble.
    Petros = rock
    Petra = boulder

    A key to the Kingdom of Names is the understanding that a pebble has the potential of becoming a rock (through a spiritual accretion), but that the Boulder is king of the hill.

    The "satan" admonitions are instructional tools ("who I love, I chasten").

    In my experience, a judgmental line of thought wars against spiritual discovery.

    b.
     
  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    That is called teaching. Teaching is good.

    ;)A stone is something cut from a rock. Daniel 2:45

    Like he did for Job too?

    Right! So Peter is most like ALL, repeat ALL, of us. (That means you too;) )
     
  8. b.finton

    b.finton In the Unity of Faith

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    The point I'm making is that the Greek words for rock/Peter and boulder/Rock are spoken in context of the Greek name Cephas, all of which would have invoked among the hearers the Hebrew Kepa/pebble. Looking forward, the three explicit elements to the teaching imply a fourth (the Mount of the Heavens, namely YH/Jah).

    b.
     
  9. b.finton

    b.finton In the Unity of Faith

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    "...lively stones..."
     
  10. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Jesus told Peter "you are a little pebble, and on this rock I will build my church" Peter is not the rock. there are many places where Jesus is called the rock. any church that Jesus built would obviously be built on Jesus, not on any human man
     
  11. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    This is incredibly far-fetched.
     
  12. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    A piece of a puzzle. Oh good! What am I suppose to do with it in your opinion?
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    I have read the Bible a few times and I never saw that anyone is called a pebble. Can you provide the link please?
     
  14. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    in Matthew 16:18 Jesus says to Peter, "thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church." the word used for Peter means a little stone. a few verses later Jesus says to Peter "get thee behind me, Satan." would Jesus really build His church on someone He called Satan? He was more correct than He realized because Satan influenced the people in the third century who took over the church and turned it away from the things Jesus taught
     
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  15. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yeshua said he would build a church in hell, where Simon has the power to remove from heaven, and bind in hell; so you would think someone called satan would be perfectly qualified for such a task. :smilingimp:

    The church was corrupted from the offset, not later.... The Ebionites who were against sacrifice and gave up wealth, following the commandments as steps to heaven, were closer followers of Yeshua, with James the Just as their leader.

    What Christians have been force-fed, is Pharisee (synagogue of satan) religious nonsense; you can't sacrifice humans, and expect atonement. :innocent:
     
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  16. Thanda

    Thanda Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

    So where exactly is the binding in hell mentioned here?
     
  17. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    If earth is near to hell, with the Pharisees making children of hell (Gehenna)...Then it is summarized in all the other stuff he said. ;)
     
  18. Thanda

    Thanda Well-Known Member

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    When did earth become hell?
     
  19. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    According to the Bible, right from the beginning God separated light (good) from dark (evil), here is made from both, and is closer to hell than heaven, as here is God's footstool, where the demons have come to rule here. :innocent:
     
  20. Thanda

    Thanda Well-Known Member

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    Okay. You have a very peculiar doctrine. So tell me what is your view on righteousness?
     
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