Should Women be Held Accountable for Men's Sexual Feelings?

[Robert.Evans]

It'll please me to no end if, by the end of this discussion, you are able to distinguish between "feelings" (as the OP quite clearly indicated from the get-go) and "actions."

What makes you think I can't already?

1.) We should all be held accountable for our own actions.

Yes.

2.) To expect us to be held accountable for the feelings of others is ridiculous.

It is not a matter of whether we are accountable or not, it is a matter of considering other people.

It takes two to tango.

It does indeed. But only one leads

The person who has allowed themselves to be "led on" is still accountable for their own feelings and (if applicable) actions.

Would you say that of, let's say, a woman who feels she has been ''used'' an oh so common word used by some of them? Are they used, or should they have been accountable for their own feelings?

Again, it's ridiculous to hold Party A accountable for the feelings of Party B.


"And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." ~ Genesis 3:12

You make it sound as though people are not human but machines. Not realistic I think. Okay writing in a forum though, eh?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Perhaps a better example would have been he woman in the garden not controlling her feelings? I wonder why you ddi not use that one?

 

[savagewind]

1 Peter 3:3
Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes.
Instructions to Women
1 Tim. 2: 9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

Jesus said nothing about what a woman should wear but that God dresses the lilies of the field and not to worry.

For the people who must insist modestly and discreetly must mean covered up please read the SECOND part of that scripture.

respectable
modesty
self-control,

HER respectability, modesty, and self-control.

People who say women should cover up are making it into HIS respectability, modesty, and self-control.

Instead of keeping on flinging 1 Timothy 2:9 at us saying it means covered up, explain it. Does it mean cover up because YOU say cover up or does God say cover up? Either way prove your source please. Your only source is The Quran I think.

 

[Robert.Evans]

1 Peter 3:3
Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes.
Instructions to Women
1 Tim. 2: 9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

Jesus said nothing about what a woman should wear but that God dresses the lilies of the field and not to worry.

For the people who must insist modestly and discreetly must mean covered up please read the SECOND part of that scripture.

respectable
modesty
self-control,

HER respectability, modesty, and self-control.

People who say women should cover up are making it into HIS respectability, modesty, and self-control.

Instead of keeping on flinging 1 Timothy 2:9 at us saying it means covered up, explain it. Does it mean cover up because YOU say cover up or does God say cover up? Either way prove your source please. Your only source is The Quran I think.

I will use your translation:

1 Peter 3:3
Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes.
Instructions to Women
1 Tim. 2: 9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,10but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

Where does it say half naked is okay?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Topical Bible: Modesty of Women - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/topical/naves/m/modesty_of_women.htm

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with modesty and sobriety;

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Just because i see woman wearing bad clothes does not mean i must rape them or harass them.

I try to look down, not stare.
In summer its very difficult to walk outside.

 

[savagewind]

Topical Bible: Modesty of Women - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/topical/naves/m/modesty_of_women.htm

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with modesty and sobriety;

Maybe some people once they take a stand can't HEAR. IT IS YOU (I am yelling) who make modest mean covered. Actually why doesn't the Bible say people should not LOOK at other people if they don't have enough clothes on? Also, how much on according to WHO by the way?

Who decides how much is enough?

 

[savagewind]

Women should dress so that men don't get aroused is God's law according to some people.
Then what does this mean?
1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable,

No one is saying women shouldn't be careful not to dress like the woman in the video who is "what all woman should be". We are saying God says for her to dress herself, not dress so that other people will remain "chaste". She should dress in a way that protects her chasteness, not the man's chasteness. Swimming won't damage a woman's chasteness. It's THOUGHTS of doing it naked under water that might.

 

[oldbadger]

Women should dress so that men don't get aroused is God's law according to some people.
Then what does this mean?
1 Thessalonians 4:4
that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable,
......................

Hi Savage.....
Veronica Partridge is safe, wearing leggings.
In my opinion, Veronica Partridge would be safe wearing a skin tight body vest whilst out shopping.
The thing is, if men like me were to tell her that her arousal level is zilch, would that help to put her at ease over all this?

 

[savagewind]

Hi Savage.....
Veronica Partridge is safe, wearing leggings.
In my opinion, Veronica Partridge would be safe wearing a skin tight body vest whilst out shopping.
The thing is, if men like me were to tell her that her arousal level is zilch, would that help to put her at ease over all this?

I don't understand the question.

If I worked on the Starship Enterprise I would never be at ease.

 

[Deidre]

I wish men and women would stop blaming each other for their short comings. If you 'sin,' (or however you wish to view it).... OWN IT.
Don't blame anyone but yourself.

We live in a world where there are temptations everywhere. If you think the world around you is going to change because you can't handle temptation, it isn't going to happen.

A recovering alcoholic shouldn't go into a bar, for example. If he does...he shouldn't blame the bartender if he gets drunk, and he shouldn't expect there to be a shut down of all bars, so he can master his addiction better.

Own your own life choices.

And getting aroused because you find a woman sexy...is not such a bad thing. Sexuality isn't shameful. It can be a problem if you act out your arousal in ways that infringe on other's rights, etc. But, no one should feel ashamed for having a biological reaction towards someone of the opposite sex, whom you find smokin' hot.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't understand the question.

If I worked on the Starship Enterprise I would never be at ease.

Very good! What's 'er name, Ahula? Yes! She wears a skin tight uniform. Now that Starship officer could arouse desires in more men, methinks!
But my question was, 'Would Veronica feel less worried about wearing leggings if men like me told her that she has no visual arousal capability whatsoever?'

In my experience, most women would feel a little (or a lot!) insulted if they were to be told that that they are quite unnattractive and un-exciting. Now look at Veronica in leggings!

 

[savagewind]

Easter 1: 10On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, Abagtha, Zethar and Carkas, the seven eunuchs who served in the presence of King Ahasuerus, 11to bring Queen Vashti before the king with her royal crown in order to display her beauty to the people and the princes, for she was beautiful.12But Queen Vashti refused to come at the king's command delivered by the eunuchs. Then the king became very angry and his wrath burned within him.......19 "Therefore, if it pleases the king, let him issue a royal decree and let it be written in the laws of Persia and Media, which cannot be repealed, that Vashti is never again to enter the presence of King Xerxes. Also let the king give her royal position to someone else who is better than she.........2:3 Let the king appoint commissioners in every province of his realm to bring all these beautiful young women into the harem at the citadel of Susa. Let them be placed under the care of Hegai, the king's eunuch, who is in charge of the women; and let beauty treatments be given to them.........7This young woman, who was also known as Esther, had a lovely figure and was beautiful. Mordecai had taken her as his own daughter when her father and mother died.........12 Before a young woman's turn came to go in to King Xerxes, she had to complete twelve months of beauty treatments prescribed for the women, six months with oil of myrrh and six with perfumes and cosmetics. 13 And this is how she would go to the king: Anything she wanted was given her to take with her from the harem to the king's palace. 15 When the turn came for Esther (the young woman Mordecai had adopted, the daughter of his uncle Abihail) to go to the king, she asked for nothing other than what Hegai, the king's eunuch who was in charge of the harem, suggested. And Esther won the favor of everyone who saw her.

Tell us again that God's word commands that a woman should not look attractive in public. Or maybe Eater, according to you, is an evil woman.

Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers. Job 42:15
The woman was very beautiful, a virgin; no man had ever slept with her. She went down to the spring, filled her jar and came up again. Genesis 24:16
Leah had weak eyes, but Rachel had a lovely figure and was beautiful. Genesis 29:17

 

[savagewind]

Very good! What's 'er name, Ahula? Yes! She wears a skin tight uniform. Now that Starship officer could arouse desires in more men, methinks!
But my question was, 'Would Veronica feel less worried about wearing leggings if men like me told her that she has no visual arousal capability whatsoever?'

In my experience, most women would feel a little (or a lot!) insulted if they were to be told that that they are quite unnattractive and un-exciting. Now look at Veronica in leggings!

Thinking. Does Veronica feel worried that she might feel less worried?

 

[savagewind]

But my question was, 'Would Veronica feel less worried about wearing leggings if men like me told her that she has no visual arousal capability whatsoever?'

In leggings? LOL. I still do not understand the question. I am thinking long and hard about your post but nothings coming up. It's not for the pun but I think the pun is funny. Do you? Is your troll funny like mine is?

In my experience, most women would feel a little (or a lot!) insulted if they were to be told that that they are quite unnattractive and un-exciting. Now look at Veronica in leggings!

I have a belly button story but it is all I have about that. I do not know that men tell women they are not attractive. Do they?
If my husband dared tell me I am not attractive and exiting I would be insulted. If anyone else did? I would think he was crazy. And you know that humans knowing someone else is worse worse off makes the person who is better off smarter, saner, nicer.... you know? So if someone told me I am not sexually attractive I think it would make me feel superior. I like superior. Don't you?

 

[averageJOE]

Voted on the obvious NO.

But for the record, I think yoga pants are a ridiculous trend that can't go away fast enough. To me it no different than guys wearing wife beaters as a form of fashion.

 

[savagewind]

If a man goes to yoga class (if holy men go to yoga class) or to the beach (if holy men go there) is it all the women in bathingsuits and yoga pants they think they should have sex with or just some?

 

[maggie2]

I'm just curious have you ever found yourself saying "Wow, the smell of that food is making me so hungry!"

Yup, sure have! In fact, all the time. However, as an adult I can choose whether or not I am going to act on my sense of smell and eat the food. We are all responsible for our own reactions to stimulus. Some people attempt to foist their actions off on others using the excuse that 'they tempted me' or 'they encouraged me' or some other flimsy excuse to try to pass the blame for their decisions on to others.

 

[oldbadger]

In leggings? LOL. I still do not understand the question. I am thinking long and hard about your post but nothings coming up. It's not for the pun but I think the pun is funny. Do you? Is your troll funny like mine is?
I have a belly button story but it is all I have about that. I do not know that men tell women they are not attractive. Do they?
If my husband dared tell me I am not attractive and exiting I would be insulted. If anyone else did? I would think he was crazy. And you know that humans knowing someone else is worse worse off makes the person who is better off smarter, saner, nicer.... you know? So if someone told me I am not sexually attractive I think it would make me feel superior. I like superior. Don't you?

'Morning Savage!
OK..... It's time to turn this around.
A biceps and pectorals man, masculine in the extreme, announces that he will no longer wear a T shirt in public because he feels that it is arousing women and drawing their hearts away from God (etc etc)
What would be the kind of responses we might hear about his message? Some would laugh, some would accuse him of attention seeking, some would call him a vanity stricken idiot, some would declare that he just does not turn them on, others might say that he looked positively ugly.
Now, all you have to do is apply the 'not a turn-on' one to Veronica and you've got the gist of my reaction. But the whole lot of reactions as shown could apply.

And so, turned around, it looks sad.... to me.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

What makes you think I can't already?

Because the OP specifically inquired about feelings and you've opted to focus on actions.

It is not a matter of whether we are accountable or no.

What makes me think that you haven't read the thread's title?

It is a matter of considering other people.

I'll keep that in mind the next time a doctrinal issue flares up between two theists.

It does indeed. But only one leads

But only if the other allows themselves to be led.

Would you say that of, let's say, a woman who feels she has been ''used'' an oh so common word used by some of them? Are they used, or should they have been accountable for their own feelings?

Allow me to reiterate: People should be held accountable for their own feelings. They should also be held accountable for their actions. If your actions have harmed someone, you should be taken to task for it.

However, I see no reason to hold mere feelings to the same standard as actions. If I were (for some unimaginable reason) to call you a name ... who has consented to have their feelings hurt if there are in fact any hurt feelings involved?

You make it sound as though people are not human but machines. Not realistic I think. Okay writing in a forum though, eh?

Organisms are machines. I cannot help it if you don't like that fact, but that's what they are. It doesn't mean that organisms don't have feelings.

...

Tread carefully. Holding one person accountable for the feelings of another person isn't all that different from holding gun manufacturers liable for the damage done by gun nuts.