Should "profiling" be allowed at airports?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe, but until a blue-eyed female terrorist commits an act of terrorism, they should spend time looking for the people who have been committing the acts. If all the attacks have been done by darker middle-eastern people, then they should look for those people.

They're not. Does your memory not extend back beyond September 11, 2001? To April 19, 1995, for instance?

Just for curiosity's sake, looking through the airplane hijackings and bombings listed here, here's a run-down of the confirmed or suspected perpetrators:

- 1 attack by a Puerto Rican
- 8 attacks by Arabs (mostly Palestinian or PLO-affiliated)
- 2 attacks by Indians (including one by Indian Canadians)
- 2 attacks by Koreans
- 2 attacks by Lybians
- 1 attack by Algerians
- 1 attack by Spaniards/Basques
- 1 attack by Angolans
- 1 attack by Colombians

You sure can't say that aircraft are only under threat by "darker middle-eastern people".

And like I said, that's just looking at incidents involving aircraft. Have a quick look through the list - if we look more broadly at all acts of terrorism, I think we find more that white terrorists just prefer to do their attacks on solid ground. And I'm sure you'd be able to find a blue-eyed woman or two in the ranks of the Real IRA, who are responsible or suspected for three of the bombings listed in that link.

 

[Archer]

They're not. Does your memory not extend back beyond September 11, 2001? To April 19, 1995, for instance?

Just for curiosity's sake, looking through the airplane hijackings and bombings listed here, here's a run-down of the confirmed or suspected perpetrators:

- 1 attack by a Puerto Rican
- 8 attacks by Arabs (mostly Palestinian or PLO-affiliated)
- 2 attacks by Indians (including one by Indian Canadians)
- 2 attacks by Koreans
- 2 attacks by Lybians
- 1 attack by Algerians
- 1 attack by Spaniards/Basques
- 1 attack by Angolans
- 1 attack by Colombians

You sure can't say that aircraft are only under threat by "darker middle-eastern people".

And like I said, that's just looking at incidents involving aircraft. Have a quick look through the list - if we look more broadly at all acts of terrorism, I think we find more that white terrorists just prefer to do their attacks on solid ground. And I'm sure you'd be able to find a blue-eyed woman or two in the ranks of the Real IRA, who are responsible or suspected for three of the bombings listed in that link.

So it looks like Black people should be let through as well as pretty much all lighter skinned whites. everyone else gets checked. I DNQ American Indian

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So it looks like Black people should be let through as well as pretty much all lighter skinned whites. everyone else gets checked.

Not so much. The Angolans and the recent Nigerian kinda soured things for the black folks.

As for the white guys, you're right: they're fine at airports, but under no circumstances should they be allowed near federal buildings or to use the mail.

 

[Archer]

As for the white guys, you're right: they're fine at airports, but under no circumstances should they be allowed near federal buildings or to use the mail.

Frubals for making laugh and making my children look at like I am crazy.

 

[McBell]

Should "profiling" be allowed at airports?

Heck No!
They should do a complete body cavity search on every single person who enters the airport property.

If you are an airport employee and leave the property for lunch, you should have to have ANOTHER complete body cavity search before you can return to work.

 

[KatNotKathy]

Note to self: wait until I'm 60 to begin terror cell. Nobody will expect the old white lady.

Profiling just makes it way too easy to bypass. If airport security starts ignoring old White folks to give extra priority to Arabs, who says they won't just wise up and start sending Chechens or Bosniaks?

 

[TheKnight]

They're not.-snip-

Hence the word if. If meaning hypothetically.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Just came across this article...

When screening makes you scream - The Globe and Mail

 

[enchanted_one1975]

I have no problem with profiling as long as it is warranted. If it is radical Muslim groups that are taking down our aircraft then it only stands to reason that we should look harder at those that display indications of possibly being a part of that group. I am not saying their rights should be abused, but just look harder at them. Instead we do the opposite for fear of cracking one of the eggshells that we walk on in our quest for being overly politically correct. But, then again, the government is better at passing "feel good" policies rather than actually looking at how to fix a problem.

 

[sonofskeptish]

I have no problem with profiling as long as it is warranted. If it is radical Muslim groups that are taking down our aircraft then it only stands to reason that we should look harder at those that display indications of possibly being a part of that group. I am not saying their rights should be abused, but just look harder at them. Instead we do the opposite for fear of cracking one of the eggshells that we walk on in our quest for being overly politically correct. But, then again, the government is better at passing "feel good" policies rather than actually looking at how to fix a problem.

I agree. Continues to surprise me that others don't see it this way. But I guess that's what makes the world such an interesting place.

 

[no-body]

The problem with profiling is assuming you can tell someones ideology by their skin colour and mode of dress. As if the terrorists are going to be sending only dark-skinned men with big beards clutching Korans in their hands and muttering Arabic to themselves. The terrorists aren't stupid, they'll just dress people up to look westernized and choose lighter skinned people.

I think there should be profiling of suspicious people and profiling beforehand to note anyone that belongs to a known terror group, which is how the Nigerian bomber could have been stopped.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

The problem with profiling is assuming you can tell someones ideology by their skin colour and mode of dress. As if the terrorists are going to be sending only dark-skinned men with big beards clutching Korans in their hands and muttering Arabic to themselves. The terrorists aren't stupid, they'll just dress people up to look westernized and choose lighter skinned people.

I think there should be profiling of suspicious people and profiling beforehand to note anyone that belongs to a known terror group, which is how the Nigerian bomber could have been stopped.

I am not saying they should only check people fitting the description of a typical terrorist, but when a guy comes in with a turban on his head, clutching a Koran, having citizenship in the Middle-East and he is saying a prayer before boarding he really needs to be looked at a little closer. The US is actually afraid of singling people that fit this description out.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree. Continues to surprise me that others don't see it this way. But I guess that's what makes the world such an interesting place.

Do you disagree with what I said before?

"Terrorists are more likely to be _____" does not imply "_____ are more likely to be terrorists".

Racial profiling is a practice based on a poor understanding of logic, which IMO can only serve to create a false sense of security.

I agree that a large proportion of the world's terrorism is committed by Muslims... but there are 1.5 billion of them! Of course a large proportion of terrorists are Muslim: a large proportion of people are Muslim!

Your treatment of individuals has to be based on the risk that each individual poses. Merely belonging to a large group does not, in and of itself, pose any special risk.

At the individual level, you'd have much more reason to be worried of Sikh Khalistan separatists or members of Aum Shinrikyo. The vast majority of Muslims are no threat at all.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not saying they should only check people fitting the description of a typical terrorist, but when a guy comes in with a turban on his head, clutching a Koran, having citizenship in the Middle-East and he is saying a prayer before boarding he really needs to be looked at a little closer. The US is actually afraid of singling people that fit this description out.

I think you mean "stereotypical terrorist". When it comes to attacks on US soil, the typical terrorist looks a bit different:

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eric Robert Rudolph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theodore Kaczynski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
James Charles Kopp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you get the idea.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Do you disagree with what I said before?

I'm not sure...

Yes, I think I disagree...

But I'm looking at it strictly from the scenario in which the suicide bomber is "along for the ride" and trying to smuggle explosives through airport security on their person. No intention to negotiate or hold ransom, just want to kill themselves and others and go to never-never land to meet their 72 virgins.

As you point out, the terrorism threat is much broader and more faceless than that, but IMO, for the specific scenario above, olive-skinned young males are better candidates for searching than elderly white females.

I'll have to look at your examples more closely to see if I need to rethink my opinion around airline travel (which as a frequent flyer makes me think about this particular scenario more frequently)... at least your making me think about it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not sure...

Yes, I think I disagree...

But I'm looking at it strictly from the scenario in which the suicide bomber is "along for the ride" and trying to smuggle explosives through airport security on their person. No intention to negotiate or hold ransom, just want to kill themselves and others and go to never-never land to meet their 72 virgins.

As you point out, the terrorism threat is much broader and more faceless than that, but IMO, for the specific scenario above, olive-skinned young males are better candidates for searching than elderly white females.

Okay... why?

And especially, why focus specifically on "olive-skinned young males" and not, say, passengers who paid cash for their ticket and have no luggage? Or passengers of any race or gender who show signs of anxiety?

I think Sun Tzu said it best: "If he prepares to defend everywhere, everywhere will be weak." You can't be "extra vigilant" for every passenger. If you try to be, then it just means you're not "extra vigilant" for anyone.

If you devote special resources or attention to one group of passengers, then that means those resources or attention is not available to devote elsewhere. With that in mind, is profiling on the basis of race or religion justified?

 

[sonofskeptish]

I think you mean "stereotypical terrorist". When it comes to attacks on US soil, the typical terrorist looks a bit different:

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eric Robert Rudolph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theodore Kaczynski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
James Charles Kopp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you get the idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these guys were willing to blow themselves up too... an important factor when searching for guys willing to ride a plane into a biulding. Not saying they are not a threat, or even a bigger threat overall, but from an airplane perspective?

 

[sonofskeptish]

Why focus specifically on "olive-skinned young males" and not, say, passengers who paid cash for their ticket and have no luggage? Or passengers of any race or gender who show signs of anxiety?

Okay, good points. But are you saying skin color is not one of these factors?

 

[no-body]

I am not saying they should only check people fitting the description of a typical terrorist, but when a guy comes in with a turban on his head, clutching a Koran, having citizenship in the Middle-East and he is saying a prayer before boarding he really needs to be looked at a little closer. The US is actually afraid of singling people that fit this description out.

I don't know, I just don't believe that the terrorists would be that stupid. And why should someone be penalized because of a devotion to their religion and culture?

Why not check everyone coming from the Middle-East to make it fair? Not sure how realistically possible that would be though.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these guys were willing to blow themselves up too... an important factor when searching for guys willing to ride a plane into a biulding. Not saying they are not a threat, or even a bigger threat overall, but from an airplane perspective?

From an airplane perspective, not all people who attack aircraft blow themselves up. The largest terrorist attack in my country's history occurred while the perpetrators were thousands of miles away:

Air India Flight 182 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Okay, good points. But are you saying skin color is not one of these factors?

Yes, I am.