should I be an atheist or religious?

[Trailblazer]

Do you know of any non-religious communities that may work for me? I feel I need a community which is unified by adherence to an ideal set by a higher power, as well as communities to fit my spiritual and social needs, any recommendations would be appreciated!

Have you ever considered attending a 12 step group? They believe in a higher power, but they don't call it God.
I attended those groups for many years while I was a member of my religion because they don't conflict with religious beliefs.

 

[hkkb]

It is only because I am not very sociable that they are uncomfortable. I am more comfortable in a small group than in a larger group and I like being alone because I am an introvert. But I am very glad to be a member of my religion because I am always welcome any time I showed up for a meeting. Right now all meetings are on Zoom, but I'd rather see people in person.

If you would prefer not to be an atheist I suggest you check out some religions and their beliefs and find out if any religion might be something you can believe. I joined my religion because if its social and spiritual teachings, before I ever had any conception if God or any belief in God and only later did I start thinking about God and how that is an integral part of the religion. You sound like you would enjoy being part of a religious group if only you could believe in God. Please let me know if I can be of any help. I am pretty familiar with atheism and most of the major religions.

thanks so much for your help! I'm actually really shy and more comfortable in small groups, too, but I think having a religious community would help me meet people. I have been researching different religions but found nothing yet that seems right. Though my family isn't religious, my grandma was raised Catholic until her family left the church when she was a child, so even though she doesn't know much about religion, our family was always culturally closest to Christianity, and so I've really considered whether a Christian denomination would be the right fit, especially Catholicism. However, they wouldn't be open to my lack of belief in God. I said in another comment "trying to believe in God feels like trying to unlearn that Santa doesn't exist" unfortunately. Because of the many shared Judeo-Christian values, I also considered Judaism, but I don't think you can really convert to Judaism? And I think it's also culturally quite different. I also place a lot of value in Sikhism, Taoism, and Buddhism, but those don't seem right for me as far as practice or community (not to mention there are none in my small town). I need to learn about more religions I can look into!

 

[hkkb]

Religion and spirituality are intensely personal and individual endeavours.

You might as well be asking whether you should be homosexual or not.

Ultimately, it comes down to you. I'll presume this thread will be littered with people formulating arguments for both regardless of this obvious fact.

thanks for your input! I have the individual aspect of my religion and spirituality down (I'm kidding, I'm not quite that hubristic, I hope) since I'm able to work on it alone. I feel at this point a lack of community is hindering my ability to grow spiritually any further. I'm of the belief that religion and spirituality are not at all exclusively personal, but I know some people prefer to practice that way, as they feel a community actually hinders their growth, or for whatever other reason. I completely agree that as far as things like "believing" in God go, they are much akin to sexuality, you can't fake it or change it

 

[hkkb]

Have you ever considered attending a 12 step group? They believe in a higher power, but they don't call it God.
I attended those groups for many years while I was a member of my religion because they don't conflict with religious beliefs.

No, I have a lot of positive thoughts about 12 step groups, but my perception of such groups was that membership was based upon supporting the treatment of addiction. Is this not necessarily the case? I am lucky to not suffer from addiction so I didn't consider it as an option!

 

[Thief]

say I believe the following: there are no beings responsible for creation, there are no omnipotent or omniscient beings, there are no supernatural powers or forces of any kind, there are no such thing as souls, and there is no afterlife.
but say I also: think that religious communities are in general a positive thing, pray daily, place God as the most important thing in my life, think that religious belief is most likely a positive thing, and think the stories I've read from the
Christian OT/Jewish Tanakh are true.
Do I have to be an atheist?
I think that it's a more "correct" lifestyle to be part of a religious community than to not; even if every member of the community doesn't agree on every single thing, I think it's beneficial for any people living together in one area to have a roughly shared set of values.
However, I'm not exactly going to just fake having religious belief and pick a religion to convert to, and I think perhaps a religious community wouldn't be the right fit for me anyway, as obviously I look at things considerably differently than (I assume) believers do.
What is the best solution? I'm trying to find the best path forward on what I guess you could refer to as my "spiritual journey" and I appreciate any input!

I don't have a religion
but I believe i God

I don't think heaven cares what religion you have
it won't matter

 

[Rival]

thanks so much for your help! I'm actually really shy and more comfortable in small groups, too, but I think having a religious community would help me meet people. I have been researching different religions but found nothing yet that seems right. Though my family isn't religious, my grandma was raised Catholic until her family left the church when she was a child, so even though she doesn't know much about religion, our family was always culturally closest to Christianity, and so I've really considered whether a Christian denomination would be the right fit, especially Catholicism. However, they wouldn't be open to my lack of belief in God. I said in another comment "trying to believe in God feels like trying to unlearn that Santa doesn't exist" unfortunately. Because of the many shared Judeo-Christian values, I also considered Judaism, but I don't think you can really convert to Judaism? And I think it's also culturally quite different. I also place a lot of value in Sikhism, Taoism, and Buddhism, but those don't seem right for me as far as practice or community (not to mention there are none in my small town). I need to learn about more religions I can look into!

You can convert to Judaism. I have no idea where this ridiculous myth comes from that you can't. If you don't want to though there is Noahidism, which is my path. Same beliefs as Jews but for non-Jews after the covenant G-d made with Noah. Same religion, two different covenants

 

[hkkb]

I don't have a religion
but I believe i God

I don't think heaven cares what religion you have
it won't matter

thanks for your input! I actually don't believe in an afterlife, so in the literal sense that's not my concern. In the figurative sense, I don't think heaven cares what religion anyone has, however I think having a religious community could greatly benefit me. Would you share what works for you about your relationship with God? Is there a reason you don't include religion in your spirituality? How do you practice your faith outside of religion? Sorry for so many questions, don't at all feel you have to answer as I know it's very personal! I'm just trying to learn more, I was raised not even spiritual at all

 

[Thief]

thanks for your input! I actually don't believe in an afterlife, so in the literal sense that's not my concern. In the figurative sense, I don't think heaven cares what religion anyone has, however I think having a religious community could greatly benefit me. Would you share what works for you about your relationship with God? Is there a reason you don't include religion in your spirituality? How do you practice your faith outside of religion? Sorry for so many questions, don't at all feel you have to answer as I know it's very personal! I'm just trying to learn more, I was raised not even spiritual at all

I look around me and see....7billion copies of a learning device

the human body cannot do anything else
and the end result will be a unique spirit.......you

the clay will stiffen....and then crack
your body will fail

God and heaven will then come to see what stands from the dust

I simply do not believe all that is around me ends in dust
there is no point in generating this form of life only to have each one fail completely

God is Spirit
the sons of God are spirit

you will become....spirit

 

[hkkb]

You can convert to Judaism. I have no idea where this ridiculous myth comes from that you can't. If you don't want to though there is Noahidism, which is my path. Same beliefs as Jews but for non-Jews after the covenant G-d made with Noah. Same religion, two different covenants

I was being a bit flippant with my language there, sorry, I know it is POSSIBLE to convert to Judaism, I've just had a bit of confusion about it, so thank you so much for your information! My exposure to Jewish conversion is that I have definitely heard of people converting, but only ever in the context of converting in preparation of marriage, so I wasn't sure how exactly conversion works or the "rules" surrounding it, as I have heard even Jews say that Judaism sort of discourages converts, as well as people saying that maybe only those descended from Abraham are actually part of the covenant and so only they could technically be Jewish? (Can you tell I don't know what I'm talking about, haha)
I'd love to hear anything you are willing to share about your experience, and I will also look up Noahidism for myself as I'm very interested to learn more about it.

 

[Rival]

I was being a bit flippant with my language there, sorry, I know it is POSSIBLE to convert to Judaism, I've just had a bit of confusion about it, so thank you so much for your information! My exposure to Jewish conversion is that I have definitely heard of people converting, but only ever in the context of converting in preparation of marriage, so I wasn't sure how exactly conversion works or the "rules" surrounding it, as I have heard even Jews say that Judaism sort of discourages converts, as well as people saying that maybe only those descended from Abraham are actually part of the covenant and so only they could technically be Jewish? (Can you tell I don't know what I'm talking about, haha)
I'd love to hear anything you are willing to share about your experience, and I will also look up Noahidism for myself as I'm very interested to learn more about it.

It's 25 to 4 in the morning so I'll be back to you later.

 

[hkkb]

It's 25 to 4 in the morning so I'll be back to you later.

Oh my, in that case, thank you for your time, I appreciate you sharing with me! I just got on this site so I'm not sure how it works but please feel free to message me or whatever if you don't mind telling me more!

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. there are no omnipotent or omniscient beings, .. pray daily, place God as the most important thing in my life, think that religious belief is most likely a positive thing, and think the stories I've read from the Christian OT/Jewish Tanakh are true.
Do I have to be an atheist?
I think that it's a more "correct" lifestyle to be part of a religious community than to not; even if every member of the community doesn't agree on every single thing, I think it's beneficial for any people living together in one area to have a roughly shared set of values.
However, I'm not exactly going to just fake having religious belief and pick a religion to convert to, and I think perhaps a religious community wouldn't be the right fit for me anyway, as obviously I look at things considerably differently than (I assume) believers do.
What is the best solution? I'm trying to find the best path forward on what I guess you could refer to as my "spiritual journey" and I appreciate any input!

You are a confused person. By no means can you be an atheist till the time you 'place God as the most important thing in your life'.
For what is beneficial and what is harmful, people have various views.

 

[stvdv]

say I believe

So you don't know

I also: think

So again, you don't know

For me the purpose in life is to get to the point "I know"
Every human has a conscience, meaning all the Wisdom is inside
We only need to get in contact with our inner Wisdom

Be honest to yourself, start with how you feel NOW
And then just continue following your conscience
There is no shortcut like me telling you what to do

Walk your own path, until "your belief" changes into "your Wisdom"

In my experience it's best not to let others color it for you
Once you are brainwashed with wrong ideas it's hard to get them out again
Your own personal experiences are most valuable to you
Bookish knowledge is still "belief", not "Wisdom"
Introspection, meditation, awareness are key

 

[Trailblazer]

No, I have a lot of positive thoughts about 12 step groups, but my perception of such groups was that membership was based upon supporting the treatment of addiction. Is this not necessarily the case? I am lucky to not suffer from addiction so I didn't consider it as an option!

Not all of the groups are for people who have addictions, there are some for people who came from dysfunctional families, ACOA and CODA, but it does not sound like that is for you. I think you are looking for a religious group and there are plenty to choose from. I'll get back to you on that in response to your other post tomorrow.

 

[hkkb]

So you don't know


So again, you don't know

For me the purpose in life is to get to the point "I know"
Every human has a conscience, meaning all the Wisdom is inside
We only need to get in contact with our inner Wisdom

Be honest to yourself, start with how you feel NOW
And then just continue following your conscience
There is no shortcut like me telling you what to do

Walk your own path, until "your belief" changes into "your Wisdom"

In my experience it's best not to let others color it for you
Once you are brainwashed with wrong ideas it's hard to get them out again
Your own personal experiences are most valuable to you
Bookish knowledge is still "belief", not "Wisdom"
Introspection, meditation, awareness are key

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I actually agree with quite a few things you said! I'm fairly set in my religious views, though, and like to develop them at my own pace.
I'm not looking for a set of religious beliefs to adopt, which is to what I assume you are referencing when you say "brainwashed," rather I'm looking for a religious community and possibly accompanying practices as well. I have no intention of changing my beliefs to join a religion, as I don't think changing beliefs is actually possible, but I do believe in conforming to a certain set of religious principles within a religious community for the sake of the unity and utility of the community, as long as the principles aren't detrimental to anyone.

 

[stvdv]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I actually agree with quite a few things you said!

Your welcome, and also welcome to RF. Good to see you don't agree with all I said. Good to read you already "know" what you need.

I'm fairly set in my religious views, though, and like to develop them at my own pace.

That's what I meant. And I discovered that I can't go faster, even if I want.

I'm not looking for a set of religious beliefs to adopt, which is to what I assume you are referencing when you say "brainwashed,"

Yes, exactly.

rather I'm looking for a religious community and possibly accompanying practices as well.

This I fully understand. I found my path while being in India. Back in Holland I also liked to be in a religious community. I found a mega church nearby, and really enjoyed the singing together with thousands of people. But when I shared my feelings/faith they claimed "You go to Hell".

This "You go to Hell" pretty much reduced all the good I saw in their singing to ZERO.

I have no intention of changing my beliefs to join a religion, as I don't think changing beliefs is actually possible,

but I do believe in conforming to a certain set of religious principles within a religious community for the sake of the unity and utility of the community

as long as the principles aren't detrimental to anyone.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Yeah, it's called satanism. Lol

 

[ChristineM]

say I believe the following: there are no beings responsible for creation, there are no omnipotent or omniscient beings, there are no supernatural powers or forces of any kind, there are no such thing as souls, and there is no afterlife.
but say I also: think that religious communities are in general a positive thing, pray daily, place God as the most important thing in my life, think that religious belief is most likely a positive thing, and think the stories I've read from the
Christian OT/Jewish Tanakh are true.
Do I have to be an atheist?
I think that it's a more "correct" lifestyle to be part of a religious community than to not; even if every member of the community doesn't agree on every single thing, I think it's beneficial for any people living together in one area to have a roughly shared set of values.
However, I'm not exactly going to just fake having religious belief and pick a religion to convert to, and I think perhaps a religious community wouldn't be the right fit for me anyway, as obviously I look at things considerably differently than (I assume) believers do.
What is the best solution? I'm trying to find the best path forward on what I guess you could refer to as my "spiritual journey" and I appreciate any input!

Its up to you, if you don't believe in god then you are atheist but that leaves a lot of paths open. Spirituality is not uncommon among atheists, there are many atheist Buddhists and some atheist Hindus.

Welcome to RF. Enjoy

 

[hkkb]

Yeah, it's called satanism. Lol

I was actually (fairly briefly) a satanist as a teenager! Shocking, I know, a teenager picking up satanism, but I was just as curious about my place in religion as a kid as i am now, and I'm sure I didn't take it seriously enough back then, but upon a brief reexamination recently it still didn't seem like the correct place for me. I'm quite fond of satanism to be honest, so if you're serious I'd love to hear why you think so! thanks for your help

 

[HonestJoe]

Do I have to be an atheist?

If you don't believe in any gods, you are atheist. If you do believe in one or more gods, you're theist. That distinction doesn't really matter all that much on it's own, little different to whether you prefer tea or coffee or have light or dark hair. What you choose to do about it is what matters. That can involve religion, though it doesn't have to. There are religious atheists and non-religious theists of all different types for all sorts of different reasons. I personally think there is too much focus on religion and not enough on individual beliefs, opinions and, significantly, responsibilities.

I think that it's a more "correct" lifestyle to be part of a religious community than to not; even if every member of the community doesn't agree on every single thing, I think it's beneficial for any people living together in one area to have a roughly shared set of values.

Why would that have to be specifically religious though? And given you're excluding the existence of any kind of deities, what are you actually imagining it being religious changes?

However, I'm not exactly going to just fake having religious belief and pick a religion to convert to...

I suspect lots of other people do exactly that (consciously or subconsciously) but I think it's a good thing you're choosing not to.

What is the best solution? I'm trying to find the best path forward on what I guess you could refer to as my "spiritual journey" and I appreciate any input!

I think you need to work out what you actually want and need rather than what you think is the right way to be. You seem to be trying to base your journey on the paths other people have already trodden without any real consideration of where you're trying to get to. Sometimes you need to forge your own path, even though that can be more effort.