Should cops use confidential informants to break the law to obtain probable cause?

[Watchmen]

What's wrong with this is it is using lies and deception to influence people to tell/give you what you want to know. How wrong is that if we consider that the person in question may be innocent?

What lies and deception?

 

[Watchmen]

It's fine when it works.

I think I made a mess of the OP anyway. Lazy me.

There have been a number of cases where Steps 1 and 2 are not followed. CI makes a claim to the officers trying to ensure a lighter sentence. Officers do not corroborate the information and then obtain a warrant. Tragedy ensues.

I cannot guess at the frequency. And as I said in clarification to Storm, the number of times CI's are used to do small but technically illegal act of buying drugs to obtain evidence and cause is not really what I was thinking about.

I should have waited for the outcome of the Ryan Frederick case in Chesapeake, Virginia to see what comes out during trial and if the police indeed have prior knowledge or openly advocated a burglary by a confidential informant. It's mainly such invasive acts such as that and not something like drug buys that I had in mind. I definitely did not have in mind people who turn state's evidence that are members of criminal organizations.

Next time, I won't be so lazy when I write an OP.

If officers don't corroborate then how do they get the warrant?

 

[gnomon]

If officers don't corroborate then how do they get the warrant?

Do you remember the Kathryn Johnston raid in Atlanta where an elderly lady was killed by police officers and the officers wound up being convicted for civil rights violations that included trying to have a CI lie about their activities, planting evidence and the wounds the police suffered in the shootout coming from their own guns during the gunfight?

They had a forced-entry warrant. I can't remember if it was a no-knock or knock and announce. In practice, no difference.

Judges are practically exempt from any wrongdoing in signing off on no-knock and other forced entry warrants. Some of the tragedies from these warrants arise not from corruption but just from sloppy fieldwork or typos. However, there are very few citizen review boards with any teeth to provide oversight for when certain agencies or judges do not do their job appropriately.

Here in the Atlanta area we had another raid with a no-knock, signed off by a judge, in which the wrong address was listed. Fortunately no one was killed. The police actually sent someone to temporarily fix his door. He's lucky.

The problem is using such warrants when they are unnecessary. The birth of these warrants come from the destruction of evidence. Courts ruled that law enforcement could use these warrants in order to obtain the evidence before it was destroyed. Unfortunately, shouting police into a home when people are sleeping is about as effective as.........nothing. Plus, there is practically no oversight in this nation regarding these warrants. The Kathryn Johnston case. One of the officers was involved in a similar case prior to the Johnston one. It wasn't the first time they lied to obtain a warrant.

The case I mentioned earlier in the thread. The warrant was obtained for a grow operation in a detached garage. Executing a forced entry warrant on the main home was useless for its intended purpose. It was not a hostage situation. Of course, the other element of such a warrant is the element of surprise in the case of hostile suspects. Or, it leads to innocent people and good cops getting killed.

SWAT, started for the sole purpose of hostage situations and similar confrontational law enforcement with known armed criminals now executes drug raids on suspected small time criminals and gambling raids. Gambling raids. Games of Texas-stud. In all of these, some judge is signing off on a warrant. Tens of thousands every year in this country.

Do you honestly believe that every time a police officer asks a judge to sign off on a warrant that some elaborate, corroborating process took place to verify the validity of the warrant. The sheer volume of criminal cases, growing police raids and number of activities being criminalized doesn't allow for it.

Then there is the issue of lying. Some police will lie. It only takes a small number in a large city on a task force, such as in Atlanta and as we are starting to see in places like Prince George's County, where a small number of corrupt law enforcement can result in large numbers of illegally obtained warrants. I don't if its Chicago or another Midwestern city but yet another ring of police officers selling confiscated drugs has come out. How many warrants did they obtain during their career?

Independent review boards started in Atlanta in the wake of the Atlanta task force fiasco that have some teeth as well as requiring proper records from all law enforcement precincts regarding the warrants they execute. What gets me is that individuals who were not suspects and killed a law enforcement officer during a no-knock raid, such as Cory Maye, are charged and possibly convicted for capital murder but the police who orchestrated a bad warrant on Johnston's home and killed her get civil rights violations. There is a large disconnect and expected liability between citizen and public officials.

Of course, this is way off topic from the OP and me ranting.

 

[Watchmen]

I'm not one to respond to rants. I'll just say that we disagree. I think the risks are worth it. You do not.

One thing I will say is that there most definately is a different between a no-knock and a knock-and-announce warrant - but that's for a separate thread.

 

[gnomon]

I'm not one to respond to rants. I'll just say that we disagree. I think the risks are worth it. You do not.

One thing I will say is that there most definately is a different between a no-knock and a knock-and-announce warrant - but that's for a separate thread.

I'm not quite sure what we disagree about.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Cuff and stuff em! Good Good Good! Them Duke Boys!

 

[gnomon]

I think Roscoe had certain issues to deal with.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I think Roscoe had certain issues to deal with.

Too True! People should be able to drive fast and shoot arrows with dynamite tied to them. What was Rosco thinking!

 

[gnomon]

He just knew he would get Daisy to go off on him or maybe it was just Bo he was really after.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I always wanted Enis to smack Rosco, but he probably would like it too much I think.

 

[gnomon]

This is bringing back too many memories of Simon and Simon, WKRP, the A-Team and even those guys on the boat who had a robot help them in their investigation.........Riptide.

Good God.

Now I'm going to have a nightmare narrated by Waylon Jennings while being chased by Les Nesman and convincing Murdock he's not as funny as he thinks.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I hate pigs. So, nope is my vote.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

What lies and deception?

That's the whole point of being under cover: to make people think you are someone you're not in order to get you to misplace your trust.