Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[Autodidact]

That is a matter of perception

No, it's not. It is a fact, not a perception, that God does not grant prayers, or, at any rate, does not do so at a rate different from random chance, which is the same thing. You can stick your fingers in your ears, squeeze your eyes shut and refuse to look at that fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.

If you like we can prove it right here at RF. Are you game?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Well, that's up to Archer. He's the one who asked us to disprove God. He still hasn't said what he means by "God" to my satisfaction.


I

And I doubt he's capable...

now if he did provide parameters

we would have soemthign to work with

I have a feeling we could be waiting a long time though

 

[Archer]

No, it's not. It is a fact, not a perception, that God does not grant prayers, or, at any rate, does not do so at a rate different from random chance, which is the same thing. You can stick your fingers in your ears, squeeze your eyes shut and refuse to look at that fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.

If you like we can prove it right here at RF. Are you game?

Yeah but we need to set some ground rules for the thread and see if the Mod's will help keep us in line.

 

[Archer]

No, it's not. It is a fact, not a perception, that God does not grant prayers, or, at any rate, does not do so at a rate different from random chance, which is the same thing. You can stick your fingers in your ears, squeeze your eyes shut and refuse to look at that fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.

If you like we can prove it right here at RF. Are you game?

And I doubt he's capable...

now if he did provide parameters

we would have soemthign to work with

I have a feeling we could be waiting a long time though

Sorry, I have none, there are none. What perameters can you set on One who is, was and always will be?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I love this argument.

It's kinda like the "your disbelief in god proves he exists, because you can't disbelieve in something if it doesn't actually exist"

By both of these arguments the following things are real:

Leprechauns
FSM
Every single pantheon ever imagined by human beings througout history
Clean fresh smelling hippies
Fairies
Gnomes
Orcs
Smart blondes
Nice redheads (sorry Kathryn)
Every imaginary friend any children have EVER had
Boogy men
Bunyips
Yetis
Bigfoot
Monsters in closets, under beds etc

Ok this is by no means an exhaustive list but hopefully you get my picture.

But just in case you didn't get where i was going with this i'll try and explain.

All these things that people have or do believe are made real by your argument. The fact that you believe that your god is the only god is in direct opposition with your theory considering no one can prove the non-existence of any of the other gods that man kind has come up with.

Archer could you please explain this fault in your logic.

And just for your information i'm going to keep asking this question until you either answer it or admit your premise is a load of horse poo.

-Q

 

[Mr Cheese]

Sorry, I have none, there are none. What perameters can you set on One who is, was and always will be?

see....

this thread is pointless...

given the above

You cant prove or disprove God.....

 

[Archer]

I love this argument.

It's kinda like the "your disbelief in god proves he exists, because you can't disbelieve in something if it doesn't actually exist"

By both of these arguments the following things are real:

Leprechauns
FSM
Every single pantheon ever imagined by human beings througout history
Clean fresh smelling hippies
Fairies
Gnomes
Orcs
Smart blondes
Nice redheads (sorry Kathryn)
Every imaginary friend any children have EVER had
Boogy men
Bunyips
Yetis
Bigfoot
Monsters in closets, under beds etc

Ok this is by no means an exhaustive list but hopefully you get my picture.

But just in case you didn't get where i was going with this i'll try and explain.

All these things that people have or do believe are made real by your argument. The fact that you believe that your god is the only god is in direct opposition with your theory considering no one can prove the non-existence of any of the other gods that man kind has come up with.

Archer could you please explain this fault in your logic.

And just for your information i'm going to keep asking this question until you either answer it or admit your premise is a load of horse poo.

-Q

Nope I just put this thread up to mess with people. I will put it this way, I say my God is real, you say no (-) he is not, I say disprove him, you try (-). HMMM -+-=+

By trying to disprove a negative you make a positive. Threads like this just prove the Existence of the Divine. Really why would one attempt to disprove what they say is not there? There is something, some just choose not to see.

Or are all the people that say there is no God a little messed up? I mean really, why would one try to disprove what is not there? Illogical, unless they know it is there.

 

[comradesoul]

No actually by asking this question I have simply shown that the Believer and non believer have the same footing. I always see people saying prove God, I say disprove Him.

Funny thing Archer, I cruised by this site last night and saw the thread "prove that God exists" and just now registered so I could start a thread exactly like this one challenging the the atheists to prove their belief exactly as they like to challenge us so often.

Fact is no one can prove or disprove God to another for the simple reason that everyone has the God-given right to acknowledge God or to ignore His existence. If the soul does not want to perceive God then the Lord in the heart will honor that desire and not show Himself.

Conversely, if the soul desires to perceive God then God may show Himself to such a soul and does so in proportion to that soul's sincerity of desire.

The point is the Lord is self revealing like the Sun. Only by His grace does one gradually come to knowledge of Him. It is by personal revelation and not through mental speculation or debate that we are allowed into His presence.

 

[Archer]

Funny thing Archer, I cruised by this site last night and saw the thread "prove that God exists" and just now registered so I could start a thread exactly like this one challenging the the atheists to prove their belief exactly as they like to challenge us so often.

Fact is no one can prove or disprove God to another for the simple reason that everyone has the God-given right to acknowledge God or to ignore His existence. If the soul does not want to perceive God then the Lord in the heart will honor that desire and not show Himself.

Conversely, if the soul desires to perceive God then God may show Himself to such a soul and does so in proportion to that soul's sincerity of desire.

The point is the Lord is self revealing like the Sun. Only by His grace does one gradually come to knowledge of Him. It is by personal revelation and not through mental speculation or debate that we are allowed into His presence.

Welcome, your logic is sound. Some people don't get it

 

[comradesoul]

I never say "prove." I always say, "evidence." The evidence seems to indicate there is no God. In general, when something exists, there is evidence of that fact.

Everything I see manifest in the universe speaks to me of a Supreme Intelligence. You don't see what I see for the reason I spoke to above.

For example if I point to a pencil and claim that there is intelligence behind it's construction you will no doubt agree because the trace of human intelligence is so obviously visible to us both. It took intelligence to design a machine to carve out millions of identical pencils from wood. We can understand how such a simple thing as a pencil cannot just manifest on it's own from the truck of a tree.

However if I point to a tree with it's highly organized growth pattern from a tiny seed to a fully grown 100ft' tall tree you and say there is intelligence behind it's formation then the baffaled atheist will proclaim that there is no intelligence guiding the process and that it is just a chance happening.

What nonsensical and inconsistent thinking to come to such a conclusion. The evidence for God is all around you. You don't see it because you eyes are closed.

I respect your right to close your eyes but I can only say it's a much brighter view when they are open.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

All these things that people have or do believe are made real by your argument. The fact that you believe that your god is the only god is in direct opposition with your theory considering no one can prove the non-existence of any of the other gods that man kind has come up with.

Archer could you please explain this fault in your logic.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Nope I just put this thread up to mess with people. I will put it this way, I say my God is real, you say no (-) he is not, I say disprove him, you try (-). HMMM -+-=+

By trying to disprove a negative you make a positive. Threads like this just prove the Existence of the Divine. Really why would one attempt to disprove what they say is not there? There is something, some just choose not to see.

Or are all the people that say there is no God a little messed up? I mean really, why would one try to disprove what is not there? Illogical, unless they know it is there.

So the whole "You can't prove god exists so therefore he exists" failed so you've gone to the "your disbelief in god proves he exists, because you can't disbelieve in something if it doesn't actually exist".

Wow it's just one fail after another with you today isn't it.

Are you gonna answer my question, i asked it again in the post above just in case you didn't read it the first time.

 

[Archer]

I need prove nothing, the ball is in your corner not mine.

 

[fantome profane]

I need prove nothing, the ball is in your corner not mine.

I’ve decided to keep the ball. Thank you for the nice ball.

 

[Archer]

I’ve decided to keep the ball. Thank you for the nice ball.

You thief!!! Megabyte Me:slap:

 

[Autodidact]

Yeah but we need to set some ground rules for the thread and see if the Mod's will help keep us in line.

So let's start by figuring out what you mean by "granting prayers." For example, if you pray for the health and recovery of someone you love, what would you count as that prayer being granted?

 

[Autodidact]

Sorry, I have none, there are none. What perameters can you set on One who is, was and always will be?

You're asking people to disprove something you can't define?

 

[Archer]

You're asking people to disprove something you can't define?

Well how can I be convinced that something I believe in, yet can not see, only feel, if no one can see it, but many also feel it and describe it the way I do?

 

[Tristesse]

Well how can I be convinced that something I believe in, yet can not see, only feel, if no one can see it, but many also feel it and describe it the way I do?

Than how do you know what are feeling is god?

 

[Archer]

Than how do you know what are feeling is god?

When I have been lead to read certain passages in the Bible, on 911 I opened to this:

Zephaniah 1

The Great Day of the Lord
14“The great day of the Lord is near—
near and coming quickly.
Listen! The cry on the day of the Lord will be bitter,
the shouting of the warrior there.
15That day will be a day of wrath,
a day of distress and anguish,
a day of trouble and ruin,
a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness,
16a day of trumpet and battle cry
against the fortified cities
and against the corner towers.
17I will bring distress on the people
and they will walk like blind men,
because they have sinned against the Lord.
Their blood will be poured out like dust
and their entrails like filth.
18Neither their silver nor their gold
will be able to save them
on the day of the Lord’s wrath.
In the fire of his jealousy
the whole world will be consumed,
for he will make a sudden end
of all who live in the earth.”

I almost passed out!

When I am driving down the road and for no reason I just start to sing praises to the lord, the feeling is unexplainable.

I am not a holy roller, I sit down and shut up in church.

I have been shown thing for no apparent reason. I wont get into it as anyone who really believes will tell you it is an amazing and fulfilling experience, like a drug.