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Shankara was wrong: Integral Advaitism by Sri Aurobindo

Pleroma

philalethist
What is wrong in Sankara's accepting from Buddhism?

Buddha rejected and hated the Vedas, Buddhists given a chance will persecute all Brahmins. Shankara himself criticized Buddha in his Brahma Sutra Bhashya because Buddhism is completely at odds with Hinduism. Buddhists do not believe that Brahman exists and do not accept it as the substratum of the world. They do not believe in an absolute reality.

"No further special discussion is required. From whatever points of view the Buddhist systems are tested with regard to their plausibility, they cave in on all sides, like the walls of a well dug in sandy soil. [Buddhist philosophy] has, in fact, no foundation whatever to rest upon, and thus it is foolish to adopt it as a guide in the practical concerns of life. Moreover, the Buddha,3 by presenting three mutually contradictory systems of philosophy — teaching respectively the reality of the external world, the reality of consciousness-only, and general emptiness — has himself made it clear either that he was a man given to making incoherent assertions, or else that hatred of all beings moved him to propound absurd doctrines that would thoroughly confuse all who might take him seriously. Thus, the Buddha's doctrine must be entirely disregarded by all those who have a regard for their own happiness."

- Shankara, Brahmasutra-Bhashya

Hindus reject Buddha and Buddhist philosophy.


Is not Lord Buddha an avatara of Lord Vishnu?

Puranas are not an authority on anything and they can be interpreted in anyway one wants to interpret it.

What if Mayavada and Buddhism are the same. Is it not all Lord's 'leela'? Did not Lord Buddha come to re-establish 'dharma' (Sambhavami yuge-yuge)? New theories would not be able to weaken advaita and Hinduism.

If he had come to re-establish dharma he wouldn't have discarded the Vedas and the Vedic rituals.
 

Pleroma

philalethist
I know. The whole of Book VII was revealed to my forebears, the Vasishthas. There is no need for a Buddhist to leave Hinduism. It is a part of Hinduism. First understand 'advaita' before you comment on it. IMHO, 'Advaita' does not, should not accept duality of man and God. If it does, it does not remain 'advaita'.

Buddhism is not part of Hinduism. Buddhists do not embrace Hinduism, why should Hindus embrace and adopt Buddhism? Its foolish to embrace Buddhism, its a religion which wants to destroy the Vedas and the Upanishads.

Non-dualism doesn't mean that the world will dissolve with in you and disappear completely as some idealistic philosophers like Ramanna Maharshi and Narasimha Nisarghadatta and others assert. Non-dualism means realizing the truth that the Purusha dwelling inside God and other living beings is one and the same. There were many Jivanmukhthas in the past who had knowledge of Brahman and yet continued to live in the world. The world didn't disappear itself into oblivion.
 

Sumit

Sanatana Dharma
Most humbly, I state that I know both, the manifested and the unmanifested. I have overcome death through the unmanifested, and thereby have already become immortal.

Each religion and Every sixth person claims so, I imagine why with so many numbers of Brahmins (who knows Brahman) this world is not heaven yet. :D

(If one overcomes death, one automatically becomes immortal - get my point? Then the manifested is not required. I knew about the next two veses also. Basically, I know all the verses of Ishavasya Upanishad. :))
There is difference b/w knowing and understanding. Here "overcomes death" signifies removing the fear of death since in this world what comes must go so overcoming death in physical terms isn't possible. Immortal here signifies absolute knowledge. And so removing fear of death alone does not make a person immortal, ex- suicide bombers do not fear death but they aren't immortal. So both ends are required as Isha Upanishad/Yajurveda says. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Buddha rejected and hated the Vedas, Buddhists given a chance will persecute all Brahmins. Shankara himself criticized Buddha in his Brahma Sutra Bhashya because Buddhism is completely at odds with Hinduism. Buddhists do not believe that Brahman exists and do not accept it as the substratum of the world. They do not believe in an absolute reality.

If he had come to re-establish dharma he wouldn't have discarded the Vedas and the Vedic rituals.

Hindus reject Buddha and Buddhist philosophy.

Puranas are not an authority on anything and they can be interpreted in anyway one wants to interpret it.
nindasi yajña-vidheḥ ahaha! śruti-jātam,
sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam l
keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare ||8||

Aha! Who found fault with fire sacrifices as prescribed in the Vedas,
due to his compassionate heart, in which poor animals were sacrificed,
Who assumed the form of Buddha, Victory to Keshava , the lord of the Universe.

Aryans had to live in India, and Indians were votaries of ahimsa. Therefore, the Lord took the form of Buddha and spoke against animal sacrifice.

That is not correct. What is it in Buddhism that the Hindus reject? Why are there tens of thousands of Gautamas, Buddhas, Tathagatas, Siddharthas, and Amitabhas among Hindus?

Vedas have their place and Puranas have theirs. No Hindu rejects Puranas. If anyone rejects them then there is no Shiva, no Durga, no Rama, no Krishna, no Ganesha, no Kartikeya, no Hanuman. How many Hindus do you think will accept that?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Buddhists do not embrace Hinduism, ..

Non-dualism doesn't mean that the world will dissolve with in you and disappear completely as some idealistic philosophers like Ramanna Maharshi and Narasimha Nisarghadatta and others assert. Non-dualism means realizing the truth that the Purusha dwelling inside God and other living beings is one and the same. There were many Jivanmukhthas in the past who had knowledge of Brahman and yet continued to live in the world. The world didn't disappear itself into oblivion.
Such Buddhists are under a wrong impression. Why should we imitate them?

No, I am not possessed. No one else dwells in me. I AM IT, THE BRAHMAN - 'Aham Brahmasmi'. And the whole of it.
"Purnamadah, purnamidam, purnat purnamudachyate,
purnasya purnamadaya, purnameva vasishyate."

The universe is none other than Brahman. "Sarva khalu idam Brahma"
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Each religion and Every sixth person claims so, I imagine why with so many numbers of Brahmins (who knows Brahman) this world is not heaven yet. :D


There is difference b/w knowing and understanding. Here "overcomes death" signifies removing the fear of death since in this world what comes must go so overcoming death in physical terms isn't possible. Immortal here signifies absolute knowledge. And so removing fear of death alone does not make a person immortal, ex- suicide bombers do not fear death but they aren't immortal. So both ends are required as Isha Upanishad/Yajurveda says. :)
Have I asked you to believe what I said? Believe whatever you want to. :D :D

There cannot be a complete removal of the fear of death without complete understanding of what we are. The suicide bombers also are Brahman. Nama, rupa is only an illusion. What they are constituted of also is immortal. Why do you see 'dvandva' (duality)?

"Yatha Soumya, ekena mritpindena sarvam mrinmayam vijnatam syat
vacharambhanam vikaro namadheyam mrittiketyaiva satyam" (Chhandogya)
 
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Pleroma

philalethist
nindasi yajña-vidheḥ ahaha! śruti-jātam,
sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam l
keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare ||8||

Aha! Who found fault with fire sacrifices as prescribed in the Vedas,
due to his compassionate heart, in which poor animals were sacrificed,
Who assumed the form of Buddha, Victory to Keshava , the lord of the Universe.

As said Puranas are not an authority on anything. Vaishnavaites believe that all Buddhists are cheated by Buddha deliberately for a good reason, they believe that Buddhists worship God in a different way which is the most foolish and absurd argument I have ever heard. Buddhists don't give a damn about Vishnu. I don't know when these deluded Vaishnavaites open their eyes and realize the truth of Buddhism.

Aryans had to live in India, and Indians were votaries of ahimsa. Therefore, the Lord took the form of Buddha and spoke against animal sacrifice.

Aryan religion is indigenous to India. They did not migrated from anywhere. Aryan religion is purely Indian and animal sacrifices are perfectly lawful. Its an another wrong deluded statement made by you. If you are so inclined to Buddha then please leave Hinduism DIR and go and follow Buddhism DIR.

That is not correct. What is it in Buddhism that the Hindus reject?

Vedas and the Upanishads are not there in Buddhism and hence all Hindus should reject it.

Why are there tens of thousands of Gautamas, Buddhas, Tathagatas, Siddharthas, and Amitabhas among Hindus?

Wrong, there are not many Buddhas among Hindus. Buddhism was thrown out of India by Shankara and we will never allow it to raise its head in India again ever. There are many Shaivas, Vaishnavaites, Shaktas and Smarthas among Hindus not Buddhas.

Vedas have their place and Puranas have theirs. No Hindu rejects Puranas.

I reject it if there is anything in the Puranas which is in contradictory with the Vedas. If there is any contradictory verse to the Vedas in the Bhagavad Gita even Bhagavad gita should be rejected. Vedas form the highest authority in Hinduism and nothing surpasses it.

If anyone rejects them then there is no Shiva, no Durga, no Rama, no Krishna, no Ganesha, no Kartikeya, no Hanuman. How many Hindus do you think will accept that?

Yes there is no Shiva, no Durga, no Rama, no Krishna, no Ganesha, no Kartikeya, no Hanuman according to the Vedas. I don't care for the numbers. Hindus need to give up their old Puranic beliefs and should go back to the Vedas.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Aryan religion is indigenous to India. They did not migrated from anywhere. Aryan religion is purely Indian and animal sacrifices are perfectly lawful. Its an another wrong deluded statement made by you. If you are so inclined to Buddha then please leave Hinduism DIR and go and follow Buddhism DIR.

Vedas and the Upanishads are not there in Buddhism and hence all Hindus should reject it.

I reject it if there is anything in the Puranas which is in contradictory with the Vedas.
That is what the chauvinist Hindus say. And please note, you have no authority to shout leave, leave to me. So many Hindus are inclined towards Buddha. That is not a crime. We have discussed Aryans many a times in the forum, I think the members are tired of it by now. If Aryan were indegenous, why do Vedas not have mention of Shiva, Durga, Rama or Krishna in them?

Why should Vedas not be rejected because they do not have Shiva, Durga, Rama or Krishna in it? These are the Gods that Hindus worship.

That is your personal opinion. Why should you try to impose it on others and why should others be obliged to agree with your view?

 
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Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Please pardon my from-exile interjection, but I have a difficult time understanding the viewpoint that "Buddhism will never be allowed to raise its head in India ever again".

I am a proud Bharatiya. I come from a line of low-caste Hindus that have been Hindus for countless generations. I was born a Hindu Bharatiya. And without ever straying from Dharma, I shall proudly remain Hindu---which is just truly something that many cannot ever proudly claim. Along with being a proud Bharatiya, I have an enamored respect and adoration for Bharatiya philosophies and thought. And by default, that would include numerous Astika and Nastika philosophies. In other words, this would include Jainism, [Indian/Bharatiya strains of] Buddhism, and the Lokayata (Carvaka).

It does me wonderful service to reminisce or speculate about my Bharatiya forefathers engaging in sophisticated philosophical linguistics debates in grand halls and "sold-out" venues (instead of forcefully converting one another or waging religious wars in order to highlight the intolerance of their philosophies, acts which characterize the history of religions like Christianity and Islam), articulating Buddhist and Hindu lines of thought that are so spiritually developed that they shame, in my opinion, a myriad thought processes found elsewhere outside of Bharat. And I long for the days when Buddhism rises once again and takes it due place in its motherland, just so those sophisticated exchanges can once again commence among my Dharmic Bharatiya comrades.

Therefore, I find the mere thought of "never allowing Buddhism to raise its head in India ever again" to be not only extremely rigorist and backwards, but an insult to Dharmic Bharatiya ideologies. With such backward logic, one can then rationally conclude that Buddhism is not welcomed on Maa Bharati's soil but the slaughtering and consuming of cow-flesh is? What absurdity is that? As a proud Bharatiya, I become elated when I read about valiant Buddhist personalities such as Dharmakirti (a personal favorite of mine) and Nagarjuna---especially because they, too, were proud Bharatiya-s of Bharatiya lineage. I hold them as my forefathers, even if they are not of the same kula nor ethnolinguistic origin, due to them just being Bharatiya.

In conclusion, and keeping in mind that the variances of that which is Dharma belong in Bharat, I'd welcome a Buddhist revival in Bharat any day. Because with that, I'd notice a rise in Sanskrit studies, Dharmic polemics, and a new and more vigorous growth of Dharmic mysticism-s. Plus, like their kin of old, they too would be disgusted with the allowance of cow-slaughter on Maa Bharati's land.

ps - Whoever is necromancing old threads because they are confusing "similar threads" with recent threads, please, for the love of the gods, stop.
 
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Pleroma

philalethist
That is what the chauvinist Hindus say. And please note, you have no authority to shout leave, leave to me. So many Hindus are inclined towards Buddha. That is not a crime.

It is a serious crime, it is offending to serious Hindus that you by claiming yourself to be a Hindu you are actually associating yourself with Buddha who is our enemy and who wants to destroy the Vedas. You are almost like a traitor to Hinduism. I am a Hindu and I have every right to object things which are not good for the future of Hinduism. Yes you are free to believe what you want that's why I am asking you to leave Hinduism DIR and join the Buddhism DIR since you have so much reverence for Buddha rather than the Vedic gods.

We have discussed Aryans many a times in the forum, I think the members are tired of it by now. If Aryan were indegenous, why do Vedas not have mention of Shiva, Durga, Rama or Krishna in them?

They do mention it. Shiva is Rudra, Durga is Gayatri, Rama or Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu who is also mentioned in the Vedas. The true gods of Hinduism are Indra, Agni, Yama, Varuna, Aruna, Soma, Mitra, Pushan, Savitr, Surya, Ushas, Ashwins, Rudra, Vishnu etc etc. Aryans are indigenous to India. I just cannot imagine the kind of impact that the British education and the false Aryan invasion theory has had on the Indian mind, it would be foolish for Indians to not to embrace the Vedas and acknowledge the fact that it belongs to mother India.

10639728_780193385386312_1616916426466938280_n.jpg


Why should Vedas not be rejected because they do not have Shiva, Durga, Rama or Krishna in it? These are the Gods that Hindus worship.

This is a foolish question which doesn't require an answer.

That is your personal opinion. Why should you try to impose it on others and why should others be obliged to agree with your view?

No dude, Vedas are the highest authority in Hinduism. You have to accept the Vedas to become a Hindu. Otherwise you are not a Hindu.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Let me add something before I read the last two posts. During the assimilation of Aryans in Hinduism, Aryans accepted to worship the indigenous Gods and Goddesses. In return Vedas and Sanskrit was accepted by the indigenous. However, Aryan Gods were pushed to secondary positions. It worked to the benefit of both parties. Well, if my forebears accepted it, I have no problem with it. It is a desrespect to my forebears to go back on an arrangement. Let the neo-Aryans do it.

Buddha an enemy. That is outright disgusting. I think you also consider Jainism and Sikhism as your enemies by the same measure. Mahavira and Guru Nanak, also spoke against Vedas. Of course, Christians, Muslims, and Jews would be like Ravana and Kamsa to you. With these views, what do you want to achieve in Hinduism DIR? Is that what you have learned from Vivekananda and Aurobindo?
 
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Maya3

Well-Known Member
I think the best thing is to just ignore this guy.
Such pushy and rude language isn´t something that we need here.
I believe this is the same person who was here a couple of years ago and debated until we were all blue in the face about not having pujas etc.

Maya
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Shiva is Rudra, Durga is Gayatri, Rama or Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu who is also mentioned in the Vedas. The true gods of Hinduism are Indra, Agni, Yama, Varuna, Aruna, Soma, Mitra, Pushan, Savitr, Surya, Ushas, Ashwins, Rudra, Vishnu etc etc.


No dude, Vedas are the highest authority in Hinduism. You have to accept the Vedas to become a Hindu. Otherwise you are not a Hindu.
Give me the reference in RigVeda where Rudra is mentioned as Shiva and Gayatri is mentioned as Durga. Only a small number of Hindus know about Vedic Gods let alone worship them. Of Vedas 75% of Hindus know nothing about. So you term all these as non-Hindus. Accepting indigenous Gods and Goddesses is the mark of Hinduism, accepting Vedas is only secondary.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I didn't denied the fact that Shankara attacked Buddhism in his Brahma Sutra Bhasya but he did incorporated many Buddhistic elements into his Advaita philosophy and hence led to the corruption of Indian philosophy and also the true Advaita philosophy of the old was completely lost.

Mayavada and Buddhism - Are they one and the same?





And that old Advaita is the Integral Advaita of Sri Aurobindo.

Advaita is definitely similar to Buddhism, agreed. But what I didn't like was calling him a crypto-Buddhist. Is there really a need? You've offended 2 religions at the same time.

Also, why do you have Tibetan Buddhism as your religion when you despise Buddha so much?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I think the best thing is to just ignore this guy.
Such pushy and rude language isn´t something that we need here.
I believe this is the same person who was here a couple of years ago and debated until we were all blue in the face about not having pujas etc.
I relish debating with such people. I can be more forth-right if the Mods transfer this thread to Same Faith debate forum.

"Yasmin vijnate sarvam vijnatam"

That is Aurobindo's and your view. Vedas would neither teach me physics, chemistry, biology or computers. You are talking like a Muslim - all knowledge is in Qur'an. And that is laughable. Kindly do not force your view on others. Of course, people say that knowledge about atom bombs and flying saucers is available in the Vedas. If that is true, kindly let me know. I know Atharva Veda has many magical formulas even in the first chapter. Have you read them?

I. Charms to Cure Diseases and Possession by Demons of Disease (Bhaishagykni)
V, 22. Charm against takman (fever) and related diseases.
VI, 20. Charm against takman (fever)
I, 25. Charm against takman (fever)
VII, 116. Charm against takman (fever)
V, 4. Prayer to the kushtha-plant to destroy takman (fever)
XIX, 39. Prayer to the kushtha-plant to destroy takman (fever), and other ailments
I, 12. Prayer to lightning, conceived as the cause of fever, headache, and cough
I, 22. Charm against jaundice and related diseases
VI, 14. Charm against the disease balâsa
VI, 105. Charm against cough
I, 2. Charm against excessive discharges from the body
II, 3. Charm against excessive discharges from the body, undertaken with spring-water
VI, 44. Charm against excessive discharges from the body
I, 3. Charm against constipation and retention of urine

(Anyone having this kind of problem?)
VI, 90. Charm against internal pain (colic), due to the missiles of Rudra
I, 10. Charm against dropsy
VII, 83. Charm against dropsy
VI, 24. Dropsy, heart-disease, and kindred maladies cured by flowing water
VI, 80. An oblation to the sun, conceived as one of the two heavenly dogs, as a cure for paralysis
II, 8. Charm against kshetriya, hereditary disease
II, 10. Charm against kshetriya, hereditary disease
III, 7. Charm against kshetriya, hereditary disease
I, 23. Leprosy cured by a dark plant
I, 24. Leprosy cured by a dark plant
VI, 83. Charm for curing scrofulous sores called apakit
VII, 76. A. Charm for curing scrofulous sores called apakit
VII, 74. A. Charm for curing scrofulous sores called apakit
I, 25. Charm against scrofulous sores upon neck and shoulders
VI, 57. Urine (gâlâsha) as a cure for scrofulous sores
IV, 12. Charm with the plant arundhatî (lâkshâ) for the cure of fractures
V, 5. Charm with the plant silâki (lâkshâ, arundhatî) for the cure of wounds
VI, 109. The pepper-corn as a cure for wounds
I, 17. Charm to stop the flow of blood
II, 31. Charm against worms
II. 32. Charm against worms in cattle
V, 23. Charm against worms in children
IV, 6. Charm against poison
IV, 7. Charm against poison
VI, 100. Ants as an antidote against poison
VI, 13 Charm against snake-poison
VI, 12. Charm against snake-poison
VII, 56. Charm against the poison of serpents, scorpions, and insects
VI, 16. Charm against ophthalmia
VI, 21. Charm to promote the growth of hair
VI, 136. Charm with the plant nitatni to promote the growth of hair
VI, 137. Charm to promote the growth of hair
(now why did not I read it earlier, but I suppose the charm can still help me)
IV, 4. Charm to promote virility

(There goes Viagra)
VI, 111. Charm against mania
(For driving out demons, etc.)
IV, 37. Charm with the plant agasringi to drive out Rakshas, Apsaras and Gandharvas
II, 9. Possession by demons of disease, cured by an amulet of ten kinds of wood
IV, 6. Charm against demons (pisâka) conceived as the cause of disease
II, 25. Charm with the plant prisniparnî against the demon of disease, called kanva
VI, 32. Charm for driving away demons (Rakshas and Pisâkas)
II, 4. Charm with an amulet derived from the gangida tree, against diseases and demons
XIX, 34, Charm with an amulet derived from the gafigpida-tree, aoainst diseases and demons
XIX, 35. Charm with an amulet derived from the gangida-tree, against diseases and demons
VI, 85. Exorcism of disease by means of an amulet from the varana-tree
VI, 127. The kîpudru-tree as a panacea
XIX, 38. The healing properties of bdellium
VI, 91. Barley and water as universal remedies
VIII, 7. Hymn to all magic and medicinal plants, used as a universal remedy
VI, 96. Plants as a panacea
II, 32. Charm to secure perfect health
IX, 8. Charm to procure immunity from all diseases
II, 29. Charm for obtaining long life and prosperity by transmission of disease

Atharva Veda Index

God's word, revealed, you said?

 
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Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
It is a serious crime, it is offending to serious Hindus that you by claiming yourself to be a Hindu you are actually associating yourself with Buddha who is our enemy and who wants to destroy the Vedas. You are almost like a traitor to Hinduism. I am a Hindu and I have every right to object things which are not good for the future of Hinduism.

I am having a difficult time grasping such logic.

I don't know about you, but Buddha didn't destroy numerous sun temples and kidnap hundreds and thousands of Hindu females and sell them in bazaars.
Nor did he forcefully convert hundreds and thousands of Hindus at the sword. And neither did he target Indian Jews and other kafir infidels on 11/26. Nor did he send in scores of Jihadists from Pakistan into Kashmir. And neither did he partake in funding powerful religio-political conglomerates to spread anti-Hindu Marxist subversionism throughout Bharat to fuel anti-nationalistic movements and sentiments in both the academic and political spheres, while collecting heathen souls in the process. Truth be told, the dude didn't even believe in the soul-concept. Furthermore, nor did Buddha urge governmental polities to allow the slaughter of the cow and make Bharat into a country that is now one of the largest exporters of beef in the whole world.

Just basically what constitutes as "good for Hinduism"? Certainly not your anti-Buddhist remarks, I'm afraid; modern, contextual realities are much different and at least empirically verifiable, attesting to a growing anti-Hindu environment that, unsurprisingly at least for me, does not involve Buddha.
 
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Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Buddhism is not part of Hinduism. Buddhists do not embrace Hinduism, why should Hindus embrace and adopt Buddhism? Its foolish to embrace Buddhism, its a religion which wants to destroy the Vedas and the Upanishads.
That's new. Do they really want to destroy the Vedas and Upanishads, or do they just not put any authority on it? As an example, do I want to destroy the Vayu Purana just because I don't put any authority on it?

Non-dualism doesn't mean that the world will dissolve with in you and disappear completely as some idealistic philosophers like Ramanna Maharshi and Narasimha Nisarghadatta and others assert. Non-dualism means realizing the truth that the Purusha dwelling inside God and other living beings is one and the same. There were many Jivanmukhthas in the past who had knowledge of Brahman and yet continued to live in the world. The world didn't disappear itself into oblivion.

That sounds similar to what Shankara says.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As said Puranas are not an authority on anything. Vaishnavaites believe that all Buddhists are cheated by Buddha deliberately for a good reason, they believe that Buddhists worship God in a different way which is the most foolish and absurd argument I have ever heard. Buddhists don't give a damn about Vishnu. I don't know when these deluded Vaishnavaites open their eyes and realize the truth of Buddhism.

Buddhists do worship the truth in a different way, just like how some Neo Advaitins worship the truth as a void.
Shankara and Madhva have called Buddha as an partial Avatar of Lord Vishnu, so there is a lot of support of the idea.


Aryan religion is indigenous to India. They did not migrated from anywhere. Aryan religion is purely Indian and animal sacrifices are perfectly lawful. Its an another wrong deluded statement made by you. If you are so inclined to Buddha then please leave Hinduism DIR and go and follow Buddhism DIR.
Animal sacrifices are barbaric. It's only lawful if a person cannot control its tongue and specific rituals are done so the animal will get punya. Even then, it is done for moderation, not to recommend meat-eating.
Your comment on Aup being inclined to Buddha is ridiculous.



Vedas and the Upanishads are not there in Buddhism and hence all Hindus should reject it.
As Aup said, quantum physics does not talk about Vedas and Upanishads. Should we reject such a well developed theory just because our texts are not there? You make it seem that anyone who doesn't accept the Vedas or Upanishads are vile miscreants who are the lowest of humanity. I'm sure Buddhists are more respectful than you.



Wrong, there are not many Buddhas among Hindus. Buddhism was thrown out of India by Shankara and we will never allow it to raise its head in India again ever. There are many Shaivas, Vaishnavaites, Shaktas and Smarthas among Hindus not Buddhas.
So, now you admit that Shankara was involved in the removal of Buddhism from India, yet you still call him a crypto-Buddhist.



I reject it if there is anything in the Puranas which is in contradictory with the Vedas.
Fair enough.

If there is any contradictory verse to the Vedas in the Bhagavad Gita even Bhagavad gita should be rejected. Vedas form the highest authority in Hinduism and nothing surpasses it.
Okay, but there is nothing in the BG that is contradictory to the Vedas.
Vedas form the highest authority in Hinduism, fine. But that doesn't mean we can't use Smriti to help interpret the Vedas. After all, both were authored by the same person.



Yes there is no Shiva, no Durga, no Rama, no Krishna, no Ganesha, no Kartikeya, no Hanuman according to the Vedas. I don't care for the numbers. Hindus need to give up their old Puranic beliefs and should go back to the Vedas.

LOL. Have you even read the Vedas and Upanishads correctly??






It is a serious crime, it is offending to serious Hindus that you by claiming yourself to be a Hindu you are actually associating yourself with Buddha who is our enemy and who wants to destroy the Vedas. You are almost like a traitor to Hinduism. I am a Hindu and I have every right to object things which are not good for the future of Hinduism. Yes you are free to believe what you want that's why I am asking you to leave Hinduism DIR and join the Buddhism DIR since you have so much reverence for Buddha rather than the Vedic gods.

Again, this is ridiculous. Buddhists are our friends, not our enemies. If anything, people like you are a danger to both religions as you will only cause conflict.



They do mention it. Shiva is Rudra, Durga is Gayatri, Rama or Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu who is also mentioned in the Vedas. The true gods of Hinduism are Indra, Agni, Yama, Varuna, Aruna, Soma, Mitra, Pushan, Savitr, Surya, Ushas, Ashwins, Rudra, Vishnu etc etc. Aryans are indigenous to India. I just cannot imagine the kind of impact that the British education and the false Aryan invasion theory has had on the Indian mind, it would be foolish for Indians to not to embrace the Vedas and acknowledge the fact that it belongs to mother India
@Aupmanyav, he is right that Shiva is sometimes called Rudra in the Vedas. There are a couple of verses that prove this, although I haven't heard of Gayatri being Durga.


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You are an interesting person, Pleroma. You first say that Vishnu, Shiva, and Durga are not Vedic Gods, and then say that they ARE Vedic Gods. You say that Shankara was involved in making Buddhism diminish in India, yet still call him a crypto-Buddhist. You call Shankara a champion of Sauram (which he was not), yet call him a polluter of the original Advaitic system.

Also, let me know how many Advaitic thinkers before Aurobindo talked about Integral Advaitism.
To me, it just seems as an amalgamation of Dvaitic, Visishtadvaitic, and Advaitic thinking. Not new to Neo-Advaita, I suppose.

Regards
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
@Aupmanyav[/USER], he is right that Shiva is sometimes called Rudra in the Vedas.
Give me the reference from RigVeda which the oldest. There is only one instance when the word 'Shiva' is used in and it has the meaning of 'auspicious' in the context.

the evolution of 'Rudra' as Shiva is a later development, just as the incorporation of Vishnu and avataras is. There is no mention of any avataras of Vishnu in RigVeda.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Give me the reference from RigVeda which the oldest. There is only one instance when the word 'Shiva' is used in and it has the meaning of 'auspicious' in the context.

the evolution of 'Rudra' as Shiva is a later development, just as the incorporation of Vishnu and avataras is. There is no mention of any avataras of Vishnu in RigVeda.

Sure, I'll send it in a private message.

I'm sorry, but most early Vedantins like Adi Shankara have said that in some verses, Rudra is indeed the Parvati Pati.

And there is a reason why avatars of Vishnu are not completely mentioned in RigVeda. That is because the Vedas explain the nature of ParaBrahman, not his leelas. Even then, have you seriously not heard of Trivikramam or Vamana? You also have Narayana Upanishad and Maha Upanishad, which you say are not authoritative (contrary to what ancient Advaitins believe). The Puranas have the job of explaining the leelas of the Lord's incarnations.
 
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