Seven Churches of Revelation

[collectivedementia]

As a new poster on this forum I was not too sure which subject to approach first,so I chose one close to my heart. I firmly and with ultimate faith believe the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation ch. 2 have as much to do with the plethora of differing concepts in religion in these modern times as it did the actual churches the letters were addressed to. The conditions described in most of the churches mirror a lot of what is happening in a good number of mainstream Christian denominations.....just watch some of the televangelists to gain an insight, especially to the ones who seem more concerned with material wealth than the love Jesus preached when he was here.
On the other hand,there are two churches Jesus recognized as being on the right path, loving one another as God and Jesus loves us, caring for the least fortunate, storing up their riches in Heaven and not on the Earth.
Which churches do these two represent today?

 

[savagewind]

I do not think the churches of Revelation represent actual organizations. I think they represent group attitudes.

 

[BruceDLimber]

In the Baha'i view the letters to the seven churches are in fact addressed to the various religions.

You can read about this in detail here:

http://www.bahai-library

by going to the "Books" section and opening Riggs' Apocalypse. Chapters Two and Three cover these letters in detail.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[fallingblood]

As a new poster on this forum I was not too sure which subject to approach first,so I chose one close to my heart. I firmly and with ultimate faith believe the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation ch. 2 have as much to do with the plethora of differing concepts in religion in these modern times as it did the actual churches the letters were addressed to. The conditions described in most of the churches mirror a lot of what is happening in a good number of mainstream Christian denominations.....just watch some of the televangelists to gain an insight, especially to the ones who seem more concerned with material wealth than the love Jesus preached when he was here.
On the other hand,there are two churches Jesus recognized as being on the right path, loving one another as God and Jesus loves us, caring for the least fortunate, storing up their riches in Heaven and not on the Earth.
Which churches do these two represent today?

First, I would just like to point out that televangelists do not usually represent mainstream Christianity, even though that may be what they claim. They are generally from a minority denomination, and do not represent the ideas of any actual mainstream denomination. So looking at them is not a good clue as to where Christianity stands.

As for the seven letters, it is quite possible that there are similarities with churches today (and I stress churches, not denominations). The problems that were being addressed are common problems of humanity. Can we find similarities with churches (or even organizations) today? Of course. However, to then make the generalization that because one particular church is that way, the entire denomination is that way. That simply is not true, and is a fallacy many fall into.

 

[collectivedementia]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. I do think my meaning may not have been totally understood,probably through no fault but my own. I singled out the televangelists because of the narrow focus they seem to have of some of the scriptures that speak of sowing and reaping. I know they are not considered "mainstream" by a large number of faithful people. They do, however represent the apostasy shown by an increasingly blind "mainstream".The letters are admonishments to get back to the truth of the miracle of Jesus Christ,and to avoid being misled by false teachers.

 

[fallingblood]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful replies. I do think my meaning may not have been totally understood,probably through no fault but my own. I singled out the televangelists because of the narrow focus they seem to have of some of the scriptures that speak of sowing and reaping. I know they are not considered "mainstream" by a large number of faithful people. They do, however represent the apostasy shown by an increasingly blind "mainstream".The letters are admonishments to get back to the truth of the miracle of Jesus Christ,and to avoid being misled by false teachers.

Who decides that they are wrong? I know from experience that these televangelists, as well as those churches that preach similar ideas, in fact claim the exact same thing that you are. Why are you right and they are wrong? What makes your interpretation and judgement of others better than theres? That is the real problem I see here.

 

[Awoon]

Who started the seven churches of Revelation, Paul or one of the original 12?

Seems to me John received some complaints about those churches from Jesus in his vision.

Also, the letters were sent to the "Angel" of each church. Do Angels get mail? Kinda funny that Jesus didnt talk to the Angels of the churches directly.

 

[ChristineES]

I've given the OP a lot of thought over the years. I believe that they may be actual certain denominations- and they almost always had something good about them although they were told there were some problems, too- I think one or two were really messed up. I haven't read it in awhile, so I can't really remember all the details and Revelation is not my favorite book in the NT and I read it less often that the others.

 

[Brickjectivity]

On the other hand,there are two churches Jesus recognized as being on the right path, loving one another as God and Jesus loves us, caring for the least fortunate, storing up their riches in Heaven and not on the Earth.
Which churches do these two represent today?

Philadelphia, Part of Sardis and Part of Thyatira received honourable mention but also received criticism; and in all seven of the mentioned 'Lampstand' churches it came down "To the one who overcomes..." but the question is what they were overcoming or what they were enduring -- mostly hidden in symbolic terms : Jezebel (a woman who'd been dead for centuries), fake Jews, and Satan sitting upon a throne. One of the Churches was 'Asleep'. One was 'Neither Hot nor Cold'. I know of no churches anywhere in which the members can all be described in broad terms like the 'Lampstands' in these letters. Some people are this way and some are that way. None of the churches have 'Overcome', and its only to the one that 'Overcomes' that will be given the sceptre, whatever that means. No church holds the sceptre.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Who started the seven churches of Revelation, Paul or one of the original 12?

In the Baha'i view, N/A!

The seven churches represent the following distinct religious stages (sorry if the formatting is screwy):

Letter to ancient church of - Actual religion addressed

Ephesus - Sabaean
Smyrna - Jewish
Pergamos - Hindu
Thyatira - Zoroastrian
Sardis - Buddhist
Philadelphia - Christian
Laodicea - Islam

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Brickjectivity]

[QUOTE="Bruce D Limber']
In the Baha'i view, N/A!

The seven churches represent the following distinct religious stages (sorry if the formatting is screwy):

Letter to ancient church of - Actual religion addressed

Ephesus - Sabaean
Smyrna - Jewish
Pergamos - Hindu
Thyatira - Zoroastrian
Sardis - Buddhist
Philadelphia - Christian
Laodicea - Islam[/QUOTE] Bruce, does that mean the book of Revelation is a prediction of the degeneration of all seven? Can they make a positive course correction that will antiquate the judgment?

 

[BruceDLimber]

Bruce, does that mean the book of Revelation is a prediction of the degeneration of all seven? Can they make a positive course correction that will antiquate the judgment?

I wouldn't necessarily go that far because all seven still exist.

But in the Baha'i view they've all been superceded by newer Divine Revelation in the form of the latest (but not the last) one, the Baha'i Faith.

And it explicitly recognizes these older religions as legitimate and of God!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[rusra02]

As a new poster on this forum I was not too sure which subject to approach first,so I chose one close to my heart. I firmly and with ultimate faith believe the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation ch. 2 have as much to do with the plethora of differing concepts in religion in these modern times as it did the actual churches the letters were addressed to. The conditions described in most of the churches mirror a lot of what is happening in a good number of mainstream Christian denominations.....just watch some of the televangelists to gain an insight, especially to the ones who seem more concerned with material wealth than the love Jesus preached when he was here.
On the other hand,there are two churches Jesus recognized as being on the right path, loving one another as God and Jesus loves us, caring for the least fortunate, storing up their riches in Heaven and not on the Earth.
Which churches do these two represent today?

Revelation was written to congregations of true Christians. Some of these congregations contended with serious problems, including immorality and apostasy. All professed Christians need to "hear what the spirit says to the congregations." (Revelation 2:17) I believe God will call all professed "Christians" to account.(Romans 14:12)

 

[Brickjectivity]

In answer to the opening post, I strongly suggest that the book Revelation is written in the Apocryphal Style, meaning among other things that time does not flow in it in a normal way if it flows at all. The seven Churches are seven, because there are seven days per week representing the penultimate work of God, finished already from God's perspective though not from our perspectives. The seventh day God rested from the work of creation, yet the world continued to spin on and develop from our perspective. We cannot see the end, but it is already finished. Similarly Revelation is written from God's perspective not ours and is not a book predicting events but describing daily life. ( All of the symbols apply every day.) Seven is the number of forgiveness, of patience and of persistence. I suspect the 'Seven churches' is intended to mean that God's grace through Jesus Christ will not be withdrawn but that it will continue until Jesus work is complete. From our perspective the churches pass through phases and are developing, but from God's perspective as represented in Revelation everything is finished already.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far because all seven still exist.

But in the Baha'i view they've all been superceded by newer Divine Revelation in the form of the latest (but not the last) one, the Baha'i Faith.

And it explicitly recognizes these older religions as legitimate and of God!

Peace,

Bruce

Its ok, I follow what you're saying.