Sethian Liberation Movement (SLM)

[RobertAlexander]

TEACHINGS

 

[Sireal]

Robert,

So far your posts have been spam and incoherent. What is your intent here? this DIR is for the discussion of Setian-Temple of Set philosophy yet you persist in posting irrelevant material to this list. If you want to start an SLM list I am sure the RF mods will assist you your pursuits?

 

[RobertAlexander]

In your view point, my posts are incoherent, and spam, that's just semantics. I would, however, like for there to be a Sethian Liberation Movement list. I don't know if this will happen, but I will pursue it.

 

[Daelach]

this DIR is for the discussion of Setian-Temple of Set philosophy

Uhm, no, it isn't. It is about Setianism. That includes, but it not limited to, the ToS stuff. Just like the Christianity DIR isn't about a specific church.

However, I agree, that just posting links isn't really constructive discussion.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

What would a Setian wish to be liberated of?

 

[Informare]

What would a Setian wish to be liberated of?

People who challenge their beliefs, in this case.

 

[Sireal]

Uhm, no, it isn't. It is about Setianism. That includes, but it not limited to, the ToS stuff. Just like the Christianity DIR isn't about a specific church.

However, I agree, that just posting links isn't really constructive discussion.

Well, when I requested this DIR be set up it was for that purpose, yourself and others have brought constructive thought and dialogue to this forum and I have no issue with that at all. I do however have an issue with spamming this list with subjective defamatory bile of former Setians and the convoluted perspectives of anyone with an axe to grind. The present troll is a sophist- light-years from anything remotely Setian- and is not interested in dialogue at all. There are plenty of other forums here that will welcome such drivel, this isn't one of them. That's all I have to say about that matter.

Having said that- I quite enjoy alternative Setianism and how the Temple's Teachings are unfolding in world. It is unique and varied and you are correct Daelach- Welcome here. Setian philosophy proper only Works within the Temple, I am sure any Initiate of the LHP can see why this is the case-it was created By the school For the school, as soon as it is taken outside that construct many aspects of it function differently.

This is Not a denigration of how Set's Working in the world unfolds at all, it is simply a matter of precision in articulating a philosophy meant for a specific construct. We have never been overly concerned with how our tech is used outside of the school or that so many think they have pilfered our hard Work at no expense to themselves, there are many challenges imbedded in our philosophy that do not become apparent until one engages the various teachings, most people are occultnik dabblers though and will rarely be confronted with their actions until it is far too late to change their course-deservedly so.

Those such as yourself who are developing their own take on Set through experimentation, practice and real Work do make a difference and do add to the community of this DIR, I would like to see that continue to be the case.

 

[Adramelek]

Setians are already a liberated race of beings, as well as, all mankind. Liberated by Set through his Gift of the Black Flame which frees us to become and to be. Frees us from knowing only and being led only by natural instinct and social norms, that we might think for ourselves and act in accordance with our own Will. Which opens the Gate of Darkness, the gateway to a limitless universe of possibilities for the Self-Aware psyche. On my personal journey of Life, the best vehicle that I have found for the exploration of that universe of unending potential, the very realms of Black Magic, is the Temple of Set.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Daelach]

I do however have an issue with spamming this list

Agreed, that's what I meant that just posting links isn't constructive discussion. Though the notion that the whole Western LHP concept doesn't really have that much to do with documented Eastern LHP cannot be rejected lightly.

The interesting part, however, is the question whether this substantial change is just a degradation, an improvement, or an adaption to our culture. In the latter case, the boundaries between translation and corruption are fluid, as with any translation.

It's a pity that Robert doesn't seem willing to engage in such a discussion.

Setian philosophy proper only Works within the Temple

As long as "Setian" is defined as "the teachings of the TOS", this is obviously correct.

That isn't even rooted in occult principles. It is the same in mundane situations. Think of companies where the actual knowledge is in the heads of the employees, no matter how good the documentation is.

that so many think they have pilfered our hard Work at no expense to themselves

Well, I did read quite some internal documents (many years ago), only to decide that this approach to Set wouldn't be mine. Your profit in this: no waste of time.

most people are occultnik dabblers though

I guess that's not even specific to occultism, that's the same for the big religions. Nietzsche (and borrowing from him, also Lavey) pointed it out for Christianity. Ironically enough, already the bible itself mentions this (Revelation 3, 14-22).

In this regard, I remember a conversation with Set, where I remarked that back then, he just didn't make it. I mean, in the myth. I have been at the Edfu temple myself. His answer astonished me, along the lines that he indeed lost, but so what, he didn't have to be perfect, and human expectations to perfection on his side were just human delusions of grandeur in human expectations.

and will rarely be confronted with their actions until it is far too late to change their course

From what I can tell, working with Set guarantees it won't get boring. Which may be a problem for those who actually wanted things to stay how they were before.

Those such as yourself who are developing their own take on Set through experimentation, practice and real Work do make a difference and do add to the community of this DIR, I would like to see that continue to be the case.

Thank you very much.

 

[Daelach]

Frees us from knowing only and being led only by natural instinct and social norms, that we might think for ourselves and act in accordance with our own Will.

Let me play the devil's advocate here: isn't individualism precisely what our culture promotes? To the point of the famous scene in "Life of Brian", where Brian tells the crowd that they are all individuals, the crowd uniformly nods, with only one guy objecting that he isn't [an individual]?

 

[Adramelek]

Let me play the devil's advocate here: isn't individualism precisely what our culture promotes? To the point of the famous scene in "Life of Brian", where Brian tells the crowd that they are all individuals, the crowd uniformly nods, with only one guy objecting that he isn't [an individual]?

Allow me to amplify my answers here Daelech. In regards to question 1 it seems to me that our culture is gradually moving more towards a socialist-collectivist attitude. However, even though our society and culture might encourage individualism, it only goes so far. You can be different, but not too different. You and I, and probably most others here, know how difficult and even dangerous it can be to be openly Setian or Satanic. As for question 2, more accurately I would ask why are all the people claiming to be individualists? Simply because every one else is making the same claim ("herd mentality")? And why is the lone person claiming to be collectivist? Just to be different? Neither way is Setian or Satanic, or for that matter LHP.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Daelach]

In regards to question 1 it seems to me that our culture is gradually moving more towards a socialist-collectivist attitude.

Strange, I have the opposite impression. Everyone just cares about himself, money is above everything. My house, my car, my job. Here in Germany, the parliament elections last month gave 90% to neoliberal parties, only 10% went not even to a socialistic party, but one that has about the social democratic program of the 1970s (and that counts already as extreme left these days).

You can be different, but not too different.

Again, I beg to differ. Compare it, say, to the 1950s or early 1960s, now THAT was conformistic. I'd say that today, I have freedom to a degree I never had before. However, the actual reason is just that nobody cares anymore.

You and I, and probably most others here, know how difficult and even dangerous it can be to be openly Setian or Satanic.

Hm, Satanic, maybe, in the past. But Satanism has always been a label aimed at the shock effect, and that one has worn out. Already ten years ago, you could go to a TV trash talkshow promoting Satanism. I remember some ONA essays, regarding antinomism, and the recommandation (more than a decade ago!) was joining some extreme right-wing Nazi party, for leaving soviety's comfort zone. These days, something like radical Islamism would be the thing to do. This ONA guy coverted to Islam, many didn't understand why, but he did precisely what he had written. Or maybe, for really scaring people, pretending to be a pedo would even be better.

But Satanism.. that's quite mainstream, just look at the heavy metal scene where lots of people fumble around with that label, especially in the black metal corner. No one pays attention, defaming Jesus and praising Satan is just boring black metal standard lyrics.

As for Setianism, people don't even know what that is. Set isn't really popular. The actual reason why I don't run around telling off I'm Setian is that I am tired of explaining over and over what that means - to people who won't understand anyway.

Though I have to say that I live in a part of Germany where Christianity isn't strong. Actually, people just don't care about religion here. Tell people you are a reborn Christian and you'll get about the same looks as telling them you're a Satanist. Not a frightened look, more like "you looney, take your pills".

I'm fine with how it is, I don't need to show off with Setianism in everyday life. I have changed my style to be more undercover. Actually, I am promoting xeper, also to non-Setians, but I don't label it as such. I omit all the oh-so-dark stuff because this way is more effective of actually getting things done. Quite some people I touched with this kind of the "Black Flame" never knew about it. But the change is there, and that's what counts. For me, it's part of the deal I have with Set.

As for question 2, more accurately I would ask why are all the people claiming to be individualists? Simply because every one else is making the same claim ("herd mentality")?

Interesting question; I'd add in some Spengler history perspective here, arguing that our civ is in its late phase, falling apart. Just before the second religiosity, means, the rationalistic phase.

Neither way is Setian or Satanic, or for that matter LHP.

Mh, it's not that I'm doing things because they are LHP, it's rather I'm doing things, and they happen to be LHP. Sometimes. If not, I'm doing them anyway.

 

[MacKinnon]

I'm fine with how it is, I don't need to show off with Setianism in everyday life. I have changed my style to be more undercover. Actually, I am promoting xeper, also to non-Setians, but I don't label it as such. I omit all the oh-so-dark stuff because this way is more effective of actually getting things done. Quite some people I touched with this kind of the "Black Flame" never knew about it. But the change is there, and that's what counts. For me, it's part of the deal I have with Set.

The fact that Setian philosophy can be communicated without the oh-so-dark stuff really lends well to it's practical applicability. Certainly in the Temple we are quite appreciative of those who can speak of their experiences and uses of it plainly. It makes demonstrating an apprehension of the concepts that much easier, particularly when English is not always the Initiates first language.

Which raises the question, why do we maintain the oh-so-dark stuff? Well, for me that is about perception. Is it really oh-so-dark?

I have explained Xeper and discussed black magic with two people who have asked me about it in 7 years. Both individuals were able to understand the philosophy, but only one questioned the use of words like black magic, lbm, GBM. Why did we use those words and not words that may be less scary to the masses? At the time I said that the misapplication of the concepts is dangerous, if people are put off dabbling because they are scared of the choice of words used in the caution label, so to speak, all the better for all concerned. On the other hand, if they are not afraid, can grasp the meaning but are not interested, that's fine too. As soon as most people realise this is not about waving a wand and getting instant results, they lose interest. Better that happen early on in their enquiry.

Why do we agree on 'orange' to describe a fruit, a colour, a flavour? Is there not some other word that can be better used for each?

 

[Daelach]

Why did we use those words and not words that may be less scary to the masses?

If I understand you correctly, then the point is some kind of filter effect which lets certain people pass?

I agree with you that there is some danger. Teach LBM to the wrong people, and they'll end up as real a**holes. Teach them GBM, and they'll totally sc**w it up. It is cool to be able to open up doors, but the point is being also able to close them, and to control what comes through. I've seen strange things over the years, things I wouldn't have taken seriously a decade ago.

My motivation behind all this has always been curiosity, not lust for power - since I'm content with what I have. I want to find out things, explore them, while actual application isn't the main point. Of course, I do use those things in practice, here and there. But by and large, I think it is my lack of lust for power that allows me to explore such things without taking damage.

 

[RobertAlexander]

Sorry guys, been away busy with many things. I did not Set out to anger anyone. I am a Setian. I just disagree with a few ToS teachings. I do, however, agree with most of it. Set has revealed much to me the last month and a half or so. I was overloaded and thus the nature and frequency of my posting. I do, however, love all of you with the love of Set, as we are all his children in my belief, and I am open to, and excited about any discussion anyone wishes to have with me and well as to be involved in discussions on other posts etc.

 

[RobertAlexander]

To Daelach, I agree with most everything you post. Just wanted to let you know that. Also, to everyone, Zeena Lavey Schreck, who founded the Sethian Liberation Movement, who I agree with on everything thus far was former high priestess of ToS and also daughter of CoS founder Anton Lavey, for those who do not know these facts. She claimed to have founded SLM bc of disagreeing with ToS tenants and how the members of ToS have become corrupt. I think she is telling the truth. You, however, be the judge. I could be wrong...or right.

 

[Adramelek]

Also, to everyone, Zeena Lavey Schreck, who founded the Sethian Liberation Movement, who I agree with on everything thus far was former high priestess of ToS and also daughter of CoS founder Anton Lavey, for those who do not know these facts. She claimed to have founded SLM bc of disagreeing with ToS tenants and how the members of ToS have become corrupt. I think she is telling the truth. You, however, be the judge. I could be wrong...or right.

I do still have a certain degree of respect for Zeena and Nikolas Shreck, mainly because of their work throughout the late 1980's, 90's, and prior to their departure from the ToS (I do know the back story behind that scandal). One question though, according to Zeena, how have members of the Temple of Set become "corrupt"?

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[RobertAlexander]

I love Zeena. I can't speak for her however I don't believe she ever specified exactly who the corrupt members were, outside of ToS that is. She did say this though:

I waited a long time and didn’t just move from one group to the next. While I was residing in Vienna, I visited a museum where a Sethian altar lives. It was there that I had a very profound experience that enabled me to clearly see the course for my future. Still, I thought, “I’m not a joiner.” I really should have listened to myself, but I did it anyway. I wrote a letter of reconciliation to the founder, Michael Aquino, who was formerly part of the CoS, since I assumed he’d had a similar religious experience with the real entity of Seth before starting the group. It wasn’t until I became more involved that I realized it was an Anton LaVey fan club. Aquino didn’t know anything about comparative religions, couldn’t argue theology or Egyptian cosmology… I kept thinking, “Maybe he’s being coy; we’ll eventually get to know his secrets,” and that never happened. It was my father’s legacy, another abusive and corruptive group, and not at all what I was interested in.

 

[Daelach]

Seven years is a bit too much for realising this. Given their brilliant work "Demons of the Flesh", I personally don't believe that it wasn't until resigning the HP post that she was at odds with the status quo. That makes only sense assuming that she rather soon had something like a reform in mind, which failed in the end.

Now history tends to repeat. I love history because since human drama has always been the same, we can even see the future from the past. I'm thinking of the catholic church, people wanting to "reform" it, failing, and yielding various kinds of protestantism. To make myself clear, I certainly don't want to label any of the parties involved as Xtian. It is just the striking parallels in terms of structural development.

Of course, if a new group breaks free from the old one, there is much emphasis on the differences since the new group has to find a group identity. Initially, the factor of "we are not them" can serve as a starter, but if the group wants to stay around, they have to find an identity of their own since otherwise, they would always depend on the old group.

Xtians have managed this. I mean, Xtians can be Protestant Xtians without even caring for the pope. He just doesn't play a role for them. I'd wish for the different branches of Setians to match that achievement since all else would be ashaming.

So, Robert, I hope I don't overstep my competence, but since you brought the SLM about, I'd like you to describe it a bit more. In positive terms, that means, leaving out the ToS as a reference mark. I myself am an independent Setian, so what I'm trying here isn't protecting the ToS, I'm trying to turn the discussion into a constructive direction. After all, why not having quite alternative approaches to different brands of Setianism, it can only be enriching.

What is Set for you? What qualities does he have? Why are you Setian? How do you work with him? What is the purpose of that? What do you get from it? Just a few questions.

 

[Daelach]

uhm.. I guess no answer does make one..