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Secular vs Religious Humanism

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Secular Humanism is the most prominent branch of Humanism and being that it is grounded in secular philosophy by rejecting supernaturalism, it fundamentally conflicts with religious belief. Secularism may or may not be opposed to religion per se, but as a social movement it is especially concerned with religious law, whereby a strict doctrine is imposed upon the citizenry dismissing the concept and practice of freedom of religion. Regarding political matters, Secular Humanism seeks to keep the government separate from the influence of any particular religion in order that rules developed under secularism may be universally applied.

Secular Humanism can be (over) simplified thus:

Humans matter and can solve human problems
Science, free speech, rational thought, democracy and freedom in the arts go together
There is no supernatural
There are now nine Humanist Manifestos and Declarations:

Humanist Manifesto I (http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html) (1933)
Humanist Manifesto II (http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto2.html) (1973)
A Secular Humanist Declaration (http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=declaration) (1980)
A Declaration of Interdependence (http://www.iheu.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?page=1&articleid=281#globalethics) (1988)
IHEU Minimum Statement on Humanism (http://www.iheu.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?page=1&articleid=6) (1996)
Humanist Manifesto 2000: A Call for a New Planetary Humanism (http://www.secularhumanism.org/manifesto/index.htm) (2000) condensed version
The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles (http://www.secularhumanism.org/intro/affirmations.html)
Amsterdam Declaration (http://humaniststudies.org/humphil.html) (July 2002)
Humanist Manifesto III (Humanism And Its Aspirations) (http://www.americanhumanist.org/3/HumandItsAspirations.htm) (2003)
The two individuals who have done the most to promote Secular Humanism in the 20th Century are Dr. Paul Kurtz and Gene Roddenberry. Secular Humanism often finds itself in conflict with Christian fundamentalism, especially over the issue of state involvement in religion. Secular Humanists tend to see Christian fundamentalists as superstitious and regressive, while Christian fundamentalists tend to see Secular Humanists as the work of Satan as a means to direct society away from God. Secular Humanists counter that religious factionism will never be a solution to human problems, and claim Humanist principles are adequate to address the same issues as religious principles (for example, ethics and morals).

Religious Humanism may be seen as a division of the philosophy of humanism that forms a counterpart to the more common example of secular humanism. While retaining a number of religious beliefs and/or practices, religious humanism still gives human interests, values, and worth a central place.

One approach to religious humanism, promulgated by the Church of Spiritual Humanism, recognises the necessity of religious behaviour while it rejects supernatural explanations. Thus, it endorses religious ceremonies, rituals, and rites. Since these religious behaviors have endured from before recorded history, they hold it probable that they are integrated and "hard wired" into humans. By redefining the meanings of these behaviors in the light of rational and reasoned scientific processes, humanist values can be instilled into existing cultures and societies.

Another approach, promulgated by the Liberation Fellowship, is to observe the best of human traits and elevate them to a level that theists would attribute to the divine. Thus, the human being's senses become the tools of creation and the rituals, ceremonies and rites of religion become the avenues for human expansion and growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Maize said:
Religious Humanism may be seen as a division of the philosophy of humanism that forms a counterpart to the more common example of secular humanism. While retaining a number of religious beliefs and/or practices, religious humanism still gives human interests, values, and worth a central place.
What core religious beliefs are retained? Most religious humanists I know reject both deity and the supernatural.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
civilcynic said:
Question: Are all humanists atheists or are some humanists agnostic?
Not at all. My undertstanding is some are atheist, some are agnostic, some (probably a very few) are theist, and some are deist, etc...
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Deut. 32.8 said:
What core religious beliefs are retained? Most religious humanists I know reject both deity and the supernatural.
I suppose it would depend on the individual. Perhaps by "core religious beliefs" they meant matters of how one should live and behave, not in regards to a deity.
 

Era

Member
civilcynic , at the base every humanist is an atheist , because humanism talks about the people`s evolution , but withount any god .
 

Era

Member
Maize , a humanist could be a agnostic , if we think about agnosticism`s definition , as one that doesn`t believe exactly in one or another god . The agnostic is that one that can not make a final choice if God exists or not , or he doesn`t care if God exists or not . And I think that the last part it`s much proper to humanism.
Pah , a follower of Jesus is someone that believes in God , in eternity , angels , saints ,etc. A follower of Jesus we can call him today a christian . The base of christianity is a spiritual one , the kingdom of God is a spiritual one , christians do believe that mankind it`s a creation of God . And every power that man have is from God . You see there are huge diffrences between the real humanism and christianity . The only pure humanist , from my point of wiew are the atheists , they believe purely in themselves . A kind of humanist untill one point can be modern satanist , but I repeat untill one point because after this point cames the magic and ritual .I`m sure that when you asked this question you were thinking about Jesus`s teachings - love one another , truth , peace etc . Well, they are basic rules for all of us , except love one another , in modern satanism you only love those who deserve it , so there is a diffrence , and they are ideals . The humanist respects ideals , but he fallowes more the reality , what he can sense , what he can do exactly with his own mind , not with a divine help .
 

Pah

Uber all member
Era said:
...
Pah , a follower of Jesus is someone that believes in God , in eternity , angels , saints ,etc. A follower of Jesus we can call him today a christian . The base of christianity is a spiritual one , the kingdom of God is a spiritual one , christians do believe that mankind it`s a creation of God . And every power that man have is from God . You see there are huge diffrences between the real humanism and christianity . The only pure humanist , from my point of wiew are the atheists , they believe purely in themselves . A kind of humanist untill one point can be modern satanist , but I repeat untill one point because after this point cames the magic and ritual .I`m sure that when you asked this question you were thinking about Jesus`s teachings - love one another , truth , peace etc . Well, they are basic rules for all of us , except love one another , in modern satanism you only love those who deserve it , so there is a diffrence , and they are ideals . The humanist respects ideals , but he fallowes more the reality , what he can sense , what he can do exactly with his own mind , not with a divine help .
I was thinking that a follower of Jesus would follow Jesus' teachings. I specifically avoided asking about followers of Christ.
 

Era

Member
Ok , in my mind are two things : one -Christ =christianity ( God , eternity etc) and two -Jesus . The second thing I do understand it as Jesus the man , his teachings on the human part . We can talk about Christ after Resurection . Before that we are talking about Jesus . Didn`t Jesus as man talked about faith? I think he did . Whatever Jesus (Christ)did we can not apart him from the faith . I said before , his actions represents some ideals and I repet humanism is based in science , reality . What Jesus( Christ) wanted from humanity was an ideal . But how many of Jesus teachings can become real? An objective introspection would say : not many . This is why Humanism came in the first place to brake the bounds of religious constriction . I`m a satanist , from my point of wiew Jesus did not exist as the living man . God does not exist at all . So I can not tell you if a Jesus`s follower could be a humanist . For me Jesus have reality and importance when we talk about Christ , because that`s the essence of christianity and christianity is not humanism . I hope I was enough clear.
 

MatCauthorn

Member
civilcynic said:
Question: Are all humanists atheists or are some humanists agnostic?
Many secular humanists say that they are atheists (in that they have no belief in a God or gods) but that atheism is not sufficient to describe their position, the same way it wouldn't be sufficient for a Christian or a Muslim to say, "I am a theist." Secular humanists believe that humans, not a deity, should be looked to as the ultimate authority on earth, and that humans should take charge of their own lives rather than looking to a deity to direct their lives for them, or to solve their problems for them.

I suppose on some level it would be possible to believe that a God existed and still be a humanist. For example, if you believed in a God that created the universe and then "stepped back" and was no longer involved in the running of the world (didn't answer prayers, didn't involve itself in human affairs, etc.). In that situation, it would be best for people to determine through reason and experience what ethics and morals are... which is what secular humanism advocates (not the stuff about a non-involved God, just the part about ethics and morals).

-- Mat
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Once again,
DIFFERENCES - Why is man not free? why is it when everything is the same and one all the differences?
if one will analyse, one will realise that the differences are because they are all mind created and that the mind itself is the root problem which keeps man away from being present in the HERE - NOW and takes one back to the past or the future and absent.
Once the mind is stilled and transended then the dualities are visible and reality becomes ONE.
All PATHS /WAYS eventually reaches there as ONE.
Love & rgds
 

des

Active Member
As someone who has followed a very progressive Christian tradition (not sure that I am even in that any more-- and if so to what extent), I find this question interesting. Progressive Christians do not usually feel too bound by what many Christians see as most relavent (things like the resurrection of Jesus, salvation, etc.). One term often used is "social gospel". This implied that Jesus had an earth ministry that was not exactly related to what many Christians feel important, but had all to do with fighting injustice and so on.
In fact, I went to a church where Jesus' name was never mentioned outside of this kind of struggle. Indeed Jesus believed it so seriously he got put to death for it, they might say. I know this isn't the usual view of Christianity.

But for those kind of Christians, humanity is not at all secondary. Salvation of humanity gets top billing but it isn't for eternal life of humanity it is for tangible kinds of things like living wage, justice, racial equality, etc.

Also God is not termed as being out there somehow, but we are god's hands and feet in the world, so that it IS what we do that matters.

As I said this is not the more typical view of Christianity, not popular thought of as Christian, etc.

There are other beliefs that progressive Christians might hold that are MORe similar to traditional Christianity that might make it somewhat less like humanism. For example, they believe in prayer. The "spin" is certainly not really like typical humanism. And the belief that humans are central isn't typical humanistic.

I am currently more agnostic, and tend to think that God, if there is one, is not an involved God. But I definitely still find aspects of the above compelling at some level. Prayer wouldn't be one of them. I no longer have any belief at all in what is termed "intercessory prayer", that is pray to God and things will happen-- generally to promote changes in your situation.


--des
 

Namaste

Member
It seems that many people are hinting at deism, and it has been brought up at least once in the thread. Just to reiterate, deism is the idea that God/a supernatural being, transient of this universe, created the universe and existence/consciousness and then let the various natural processes of sum of all creations take place and has since not been involved. This idea is frequently labeled as "God as the watchmaker" as is probably plastered about the Deism forum (this is my third post, so be gentle!).

I can attest to MatCauthorn's entry about what seems to be the "inadequacies of labels" and that there are stipulations to how a believer could technically be labeled a humanist. Even though this is an essentialist idea, it keeps the non-theistic principles of secular humanism in check. It is very possible for a deist to be a humanist because of the lack of an all powerful enforcer.

Religious humanism on the other hand is quite the syncretic discipline. Because of the many faiths in the world, there has emerged an array of religious humanist creeds. In a nutshell they involve the humanist principles of the secular creed while adopting the particular doctrines of the different faiths. Some of the broader creeds have taken the interfaith path and have adopted a single, versatile, universal theistic agenda.
 

Namaste

Member
What the hell are "the humanist principles of the secular creed"?

The "humanist principles of the secular creed" can be and should have been stated as the secular humanist principles that do not require an atheistic/agnostic stance.

Taken from Wikipedia:

Fulfillment, growth, creativity - A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

Building a better world
- A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves.

Ethics
- A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

These are all tenets of the secular humanist creed that can be adopted into religious humanism because of their absence of the atheistic/agnostic views of the supernatural.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The "humanist principles of the secular creed" can be and should have been stated as the secular humanist principles that do not require an atheistic/agnostic stance.
Or - the "humanist principles of the secular creed" can be and should have been stated as the ... humanist principles that do not require a theistic/atheistic/agnostic stance. Unfortunately, the term "secular" is increasingly taking on the connotation of anti-theistic ...
 

MaddLlama

Obstructor of justice
Wasn't Sir Thomas More a humanist, and a Catholic? If a person can't be a humanist and believe in god, then I think you're going to have to throw away a huge lot of humanist writings and ideas.
 
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