Squirt said:
I think I'll begin by addressing the comments made in this post and then working backwards (since I somehow failed to notice this thread until just now). Jesus Christ did establish an organized Church. He referred to it as His Church. Paul said that He (Jesus Christ himself) "gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers..." He personally called them, ordained them and gave them the authority to act in His name so that His Church might continue to function as it would have done had He not been put to death.
Jesus sent out seventy of His disciples, but He never referred to them as His "Apostles." On the contrary, Luke 6:13 states that "...when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles." There are, throughout the New Testament, numerous references to "the twelve," clearly indicating that (1)their role was unique among all of Christ's followers and (2)they were to function as an united body.
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to provide a pretty reputable source to convince me of that. Jesus ordained "the twelve" to be His Apostles. The Apostles, acting under the authority He gave them, in turn ordained others (how many, we do not know) to be bishops. Furthermore, the New Testament record is quite clear that, for a period of time, at least, whenever a vacancy among the Apostles occurred, a new Apostle was chosen to replace the one who had died. The scriptures mention four individuals by name who were not among the original twelve, but who were at some point called to be an Apostle, these being Matthias, Paul, Barnabus and James (Jesus' brother).
To become "imbedded bishops"? Where are you coming up with these ideas? Jesus Christ's Church was built on a foundation of Prophets and Apostles and, according to Paul, this organization was to continue to exist until such time as "we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God." Are we there yet? Hardly! Therefore, the conditions permitting this organization to be discontinued have never been met. Living Apostles were intended by Jesus Christ to be a part of His Church, and a Church cannot be "Apostolic" without Apostles. It's that simple!
The Church Jesus ws referring to was the
ecclesia -- the Body. Jesus didn't establish deacons -- the apostles did! Jesus didn't establish different communities in different places -- the apostles did! Jesus didn't establish Christianity as the state religion -- Constantine did! What are you talking about? The Church did not function in the same way after Jesus died, as it did prior. The organization and character (not the nature) changed drastically following Jesus' death.
Again...semantics. There's nothing sacred about the names we use -- they're meant ot be descriptive of the function of the office. The word "apostle" means "sent out." Jesus gathered seventy people and
sent them out! They were apostles, because that was the job they did! Just because the gospelers didn't specifically refer to them as "apostles," and just because the English may translate a little differently, does not mean that they weren't apostles -- those who were sent out.
Yes, the role of the Twelve was unique. They had been called out from the body of disciples for a special ministry. I've never contended that. When Jesus was about to leave, he ordained them to have authority and to
oversee the Church. The word
bishop, or
episkopos, means "overseer." Jesus made the Twelve bishops, or overseers, of the Church. Their job was to "go out" (apostle) into the world, and to "oversee" (bishop) the affairs of the Church.
That's correct. That's what I've been saying, that the Twelve chose their own replacements and made
them bishops, too.
Bishops do not travel anymore. They are in authority over a specific area, along with other bishops, who are in authority over other specific areas. Together, they govern the Church. But they do not travel. They are not "sent out" anymore. The "job" of apostle has become the "job" of bishop. Bishops are still called "apostles" out of a sense of who they descended from. There is an apostolic succession of bishops in the Church.
Remember that Paul's world view was much different than ours. To Paul, the unification of the Church through the ecumenical councils, the establishment of the Church as the state religion, and the political sway of the Church through the Middle Ages would have been indicators that they "had all come in the unity of the faith, and the knowledge of the Son of God." Our world is much bigger than Paul's, and our religious scenery far, far different. For all intents and purposes, the Church
was one for centuries!
Christ's Church was built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles -- and it has continued upon that foundation, led by its bishops, who have been authorized by the apostles. What's the problem?