"Scientism" on Wikipedia ...

[Sheldon]

You can’t tell, in your own heart, the difference between love and hate? Maybe you should learn to trust your heart, and speak it’s language.

Your heart is a pump made of muscle, your brain experiences emotions. I dislike such woolly metaphors.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Your heart is a pump made of muscle, your brain experiences emotions. I dislike such woolly metaphors.

Being English Sheldon, I have a heart of oak. Many Welsh people, I have found, have hearts of gold. How sad that you have only a heart of gristle.

 

[Sheldon]

Being English Sheldon, I have a heart of oak. Many Welsh people, I have found, have hearts of gold. How sad that you have only a heart of gristle.

Ah ad hominem fallacy, quelle surprise. Another pointless metaphor, and muscle is not gristle. Why are theists so fond of woolly metaphors? It's as if facts worry them when expressed allowed, like the human brain being responsible for our emotions.

 

[joelr]

You can’t tell, in your own heart, the difference between love and hate? Maybe you should learn to trust your heart, and speak it’s language.

A truly moot point. First my personal feelings don't matter to this point.
The point is people have claimed to feel Gods love and to feel love for Gods message. Including the love for the message about homosexuals and then the hate they feel against them. People have felt the love for the message about non-believers and heathens and in turn hated those heretics and found it to be "Gods will" that they be killed.

I can tell what's right. But 2000 years of fundamentalists really cannot. Since it's "Gods word" against homosexuals, non-believers, women speaking in church, then those things will be "hated". For thousands of years these fundamentalists love to do Gods bidding and speak out against gays or other religions.
SO, sorry. Not reliable when Gods are involved. The feelings in your heart clearly need be protected from being brainwashed into myths that promote bigotry, hate, religious separation.
Thousands of people speak the language of the heart, except their version is Allah is the true God, his message is correct. Hate to say it, terrorists are not doing it for the violence. They believe in their heart that Allah wants this.
Jesus clearly hates non-believers. Says he will even shun them to God. Emotional actions need to be tempered with secular humanism. Not pretend divine laws.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Ah ad hominem fallacy, quelle surprise. Another pointless metaphor, and muscle is not gristle. Why are theists so fond of woolly metaphors? It's as if facts worry them when expressed allowed, like the human brain being responsible for our emotions.

Why are (some) atheists so literalist, and averse to metaphor? It’s as if imagination, and the awareness that nothing is ever quite as it seems, worries them.

 

[RestlessSoul]

A truly moot point. First my personal feelings don't matter to this point.
The point is people have claimed to feel Gods love and to feel love for Gods message. Including the love for the message about homosexuals and then the hate they feel against them. People have felt the love for the message about non-believers and heathens and in turn hated those heretics and found it to be "Gods will" that they be killed.

I can tell what's right. But 2000 years of fundamentalists really cannot. Since it's "Gods word" against homosexuals, non-believers, women speaking in church, then those things will be "hated". For thousands of years these fundamentalists love to do Gods bidding and speak out against gays or other religions.
SO, sorry. Not reliable when Gods are involved. The feelings in your heart clearly need be protected from being brainwashed into myths that promote bigotry, hate, religious separation.
Thousands of people speak the language of the heart, except their version is Allah is the true God, his message is correct. Hate to say it, terrorists are not doing it for the violence. They believe in their heart that Allah wants this.
Jesus clearly hates non-believers. Says he will even shun them to God. Emotional actions need to be tempered with secular humanism. Not pretend divine laws.

Well if that’s what God means to you, then I don’t wonder that you resent and reject Him.

But I do not recognise your conception of God. God to me is love, mercy, and compassion.

 

[Sheldon]

Why are (some) atheists so literalist, and averse to metaphor? It’s as if imagination, and the awareness that nothing is ever quite as it seems, worries them.

I have no idea I like metaphors when they're apropos, but not when they are used to avoid facts as that admission makes a point being made appear a lot less credible, for example:

"Open your heart, and examine your soul." Would become scrutinise my unevidenced subjective assertion, by using subjective emotional bias, rather than relying on unemotional reasoning, and objective scrutiny.

It’s as if imagination, and the awareness that nothing is ever quite as it seems, worries them.

It doesn't worry me, as sometimes things are not as they seem, like unevidenced claims dressed up with woolly metaphors for example, but sometimes things are very much clearer, like things supported by sufficient objective evidence, which match reality and are testable and falsifiable.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I have no idea I like metaphors when they're apropos, but not when they are used to avoid facts as that admission makes a point being made appear a lot less credible, for example:

"Open your heart, and examine your soul." Would become scrutinise my unevidenced subjective assertion, by using subjective emotional bias, rather than relying on unemotional reasoning, and objective scrutiny.



It doesn't worry me, as sometimes things are not as they seem, like unevidenced claims dressed up with woolly metaphors for example, but sometimes things are very much clearer, like things supported by sufficient objective evidence, which match reality and are testable and falsifiable.

Yes, where would you be without logic, evidence, critical scrutiny? If you could turn off your chattering, reasoning mind for just a moment, and simply be, what might you hear then, in the bottomless depths of the silence between heartbeats?

 

[Sheldon]

Yes, where would you be without logic, evidence, critical scrutiny?

Superstitious probably.

what might you hear then, in the bottomless depths of the silence between heartbeats?

Generally one hears nothing in silence, that is what the word means, perhaps you mean what might one imagine? Whatever you want probably, that's the great thing about human imagination it is virtually boundless, and can be fun to indulge. That doesn't make it all real of course.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Superstitious probably.



Generally one hears nothing in silence, that is what the word means, perhaps you mean what might one imagine? Whatever you want probably, that's the great thing about human imagination it is virtually boundless, and can be fun to indulge. That doesn't make it all real of course.

Aha, yes Sheldon. But what is real? Finally, you stumble on a question worth asking.

 

[Sheldon]

Aha, yes Sheldon. But what is real? Finally, you stumble on a question worth asking.

Why would you assume an atheist, has not already asked themselves that question?

 

[joelr]

Well if that’s what God means to you, then I don’t wonder that you resent and reject Him.

First of all I don't reject your God, Yahweh is a fictional character in a religious myth. I feel the same about Zeus. I already understand that many people will use their "feelings" about God to promote love and compassion and other virtues. But the point is (why do I have to explain this?) that there are also people who say they know God is real because they feel God in their heart and they know he hates gays or non-believers or all sorts of hateful messages. Others say the know God is in their heart telling them Allah is the only true God and followers of Jesus are completely wrong.
So it's clearly not a reliable way to get to truth.
As long as people support concepts of Gods being real then all the hate can be backed up as well as the good. What do you think terrorists are doing? They believe in their heart that they are following what God wants. They are doing things to get into their afterlife.
None of those feelings are real, they are psychological and have nothing to do with any deity outside of your mind.

But I do not recognise your conception of God. God to me is love, mercy, and compassion.

It doesn't matter what you hide from. There are many people using their "I know in my heart what God wants me to do" to do hateful things. Until superstitious nonsense is completely gone there will always be people who use God in these ways.
But you are also making stuff up. Your own scripture is not just about love, mercy and compassion. There are clear examples of God speaking out against gays and Jesus saying he will shun non-believers in front of God. Jesus says not to speak or associate with non-believers, says they will go to a lake of fire. So your version is even more make believe than the real make believe version.