science (in)tolerance

[AtheistAJ]

I hear creationist people on tv saying things like evolution is "stupid, crazy, ridiculous...", those are the same people who believe plants were made before light, light was created before sun, stars after sun, and that the whole universe was created in a week (ET - Earth time ). On the other hand, scientist always say things like "We respect their beliefs...".
Does anyone think fundamentalists are reason intolerant?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Does anyone think fundamentalists are reason intolerant?

Does anyone thing that there is value in leading questions such as this?

 

[michel]

Does anyone thing that there is value in leading questions such as this?

I am not sure I understand the question.

 

[painted wolf]

I don't think there is much of a question as a jab at Creationists....
I have heard "evolutionists" be just as intolerant of Creationists as they can be of evolutionists.
Sadly I think that this may be one of those cases.:bonk:

once again broad strokes with a big brush.

wa:do

 

[Katzpur]

I am not sure I understand the question.

It appears to me that Athiest is making an unfounded generalization. I've heard plenty of creationists call evolutionists stupid and I've heard the same statement made in reverse. Some people can't handle a difference of opinion, but intolerance exists in both camps.

 

[Fatmop]

Ideological opposition, plain and simple. If these people could have a war with each other, they would have.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I hear creationist people on tv saying things like evolution is "stupid, crazy, ridiculous...", those are the same people who believe plants were made before light, light was created before sun, stars after sun, and that the whole universe was created in a week (ET - Earth time ). On the other hand, scientist always say things like "We respect their beliefs...".
Does anyone think fundamentalists are reason intolerant?

To be fair, some evolutionists have also appear on tv saying the exact things about creationists. Name calling and non-factual accusations happened in both evolutionists and creationists camps. There are bad scientists as well as good scientists, and not all scientists always say "We respect their beliefs....."
So you might want to rephrase your questions and say majority of creationists say this and that , and majority of scientists behave in this way and that way, and then support your statement with statistical figure supporting the statement, then only we can consider whether fundamentalists are reason intolerant or not.

 

[AtheistAJ]

So you might want to rephrase your questions and say majority of creationists say this and that , and majority of scientists behave in this way and that way, and then support your statement with statistical figure supporting the statement, then only we can consider whether fundamentalists are reason intolerant or not.

I should have put it that way, but it shouldn't be that hard for theists to understand my point without any statistical figures, as that is the way they believe what they do. And I am generalizing here because there are no statistics positively proving the existence of a god.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... it shouldn't be that hard for theists to understand my point without any statistical figures, as that is the way they believe what they do. And I am generalizing here because there are no statistics positively proving the existence of a god.

Those two sentences, taken together, are so far removed from being coherent or rational that it's almost funny.

 

[painted wolf]

I should have put it that way, but it shouldn't be that hard for theists to understand my point without any statistical figures, as that is the way they believe what they do. And I am generalizing here because there are no statistics positively proving the existence of a god.

so basically this is an unsupported attack on thiests? Again.....
Thiests should just accept and understand your generalizations?
Just remember that there are no statistics positively disproving "god".

wa:do

 

[AtheistAJ]

so basically this is an unsupported attack on thiests? Again.....
Thiests should just accept and understand your generalizations?
Just remember that there are no statistics positively disproving "god".

wa:do

What about all the scientific breakthroughs, like the solar system and archeological discoveries that date millions of years prior to the time it is alleged Jehovah created Earth? The fact clouds are but vaporized water and not the heavens?

 

[Quiddity]

It appears to me that Athiest is making an unfounded generalization. I've heard plenty of creationists call evolutionists stupid and I've heard the same statement made in reverse. Some people can't handle a difference of opinion, but intolerance exists in both camps.

Echo....echo..

~Victor

 

[painted wolf]

what about them... Mayans figured out how to predict solar eclipses, that the earth was round (for some reason it seems only poor Medieval Europeans had a problem with this one).. the solar system was the result of religious Greeks and Romans... and was also 'discovered' by anchient Chinese and others..
As for Jehova and the "creation date" of the earth.... I'm not a Christian or Abrahamic of any flavor... and there are many Abrahamic followers that accept modern science and realize that religoius mythology is there to learn from.. not follow blindly.
I don't know about anyone who thought the clouds were literally the heavens... though some used it as an analogy.

once again broad brush.. poor understanding of theism outside your personal experience.

wa:do

 

[AtheistAJ]

I don't know about anyone who thought the clouds were literally the heavens... though some used it as an analogy.

once again broad brush.. poor understanding of theism outside your personal experience.

wa:do

I'm sure it used to be thought that way, like in the picture of Jehovah creating Adam. Just because it isn't a popular way of thinking our lifetime doesn't mean it wasn't before.

As for Jehova and the "creation date" of the earth.... I'm not a Christian or Abrahamic of any flavor... and there are many Abrahamic followers that accept modern science and realize that religoius mythology is there to learn from.. not follow blindly.

Now you're generalizing, as that's not the way people who are trying to teach ID in schools believe. Most of them are Catholic, that's the only reason they are so fired up about the subject.

 

[michel]

This is sad Deut; I don't like hearing fellow theists talking about your intollerance towards us, because I believe that you are genuinely entrenched in a "If there is no scientific proof, I will not give credence" mindset, which I can understand, and respect.


What I find hard to accept though is the vehemence with which you express your views; as far as the OP is concerned ie "Does anyone think fundamentalists are reason intolerant?"
by Atheist AJ, all I can say is do not tar everyone in one camp with the same brush........

 

[JerryL]

If we presume that a fundamentalist is a self-avowed Biblical literalist (I say that because I don't believe that the Christian fundamentalist movement actually literally believes the entire Bible, and I cannot speak with a decent competency on the non-Christian fundamentalists), and we accept that the Bible has many claims which fly in the face of reason, then we must conclude that a Christian Fundamentalist, minimally, is willing to ignore reason in favor of religious dogma... otherwise they would not be fundamentalist.

 

[Angama]

If we presume that a fundamentalist is a self-avowed Biblical literalist (I say that because I don't believe that the Christian fundamentalist movement actually literally believes the entire Bible, and I cannot speak with a decent competency on the non-Christian fundamentalists), and we accept that the Bible has many claims which fly in the face of reason, then we must conclude that a Christian Fundamentalist, minimally, is willing to ignore reason in favor of religious dogma... otherwise they would not be fundamentalist.

That's true. But this shouldn't be taken to the extreme and one must not say "that they ignore reason altogether". I find some atheist making this mistake. You rarely see both extremes. Some have more reason then others. But then again this happens in non-theist circles as well.

AA

 

[mr.guy]

What about all the scientific breakthroughs, like the solar system and archeological discoveries that date millions of years prior to the time it is alleged Jehovah created Earth? The fact clouds are but vaporized water and not the heavens?

i would ask as well, so what? Your original question was to query fundamentalist intolerance, and here you are, all aghast, expounding on things "they" don't believe in. How is not believing something intolerant? More to the point, what pressure do any of us have to beleive any scientific notion? I mean really, what's it to you? On one hand, i may find evolution agreeable, yet i'm not a biologist; so what worth has my belief in evolution? Nothing. I can recite the athiest dogma on evolution well enough, i'm sure, as you can... But i don't seek to lecture on subjects i'm pitiably ignorant about. Frankly, my tendancy to bring up such things is only 'cause i'm a jerk. What's your excuse?

 

[ZeldaManiac]

Heh, if I had a nickel for every time I saw or participated in this kind of fig- err, debate...

Anywho, just so you know, I do believe the bible and take it literally. I do believe that the entire universe was created in seven days (although I'm still pondering if that was earth days or some other time, though it really doesn't matter to me. Imagine how much you could make in an hour if you were omnipotent). For me, the bible isn't hard to believe. Having the knowledge that there's some really big powerful dude out there that's willing to help me out with anything I'm going through, a guy that cares about me, it's pretty cool to have. And hey, even if it really is all scrap, even if I am living a lie, it sure beats me going around thinking I was a cosmic accident with no point in life, no destiny and no real reason to value anything.

Oh, and just so you know, there is a ton of evidense supporting the idea of another dimention/realm/whatever you want to call it. Ever heard of bizzare phemonina? A few examples are pen levetating themselves and writing on paper with no force seen by us "mortals", and people going into hypnotic trances and talking fluently in languenges completely unknown to them. There is nothing scientific to explain these things, and it would be a logical decicion to conclude that "other forces" are interfering. My conclusion is that of the one drawn by the bible, that of the Spiritual realm in which two active forces exist: Good and evil; angels and demons. However you believe whatever you believe is up to you, and I won't try and change you or slam you for what you believe. Just don't go stabbing at me for believing what I do, even if it is presposterous. It works for me and that's that.

 

[Ryan2065]

Now you're generalizing, as that's not the way people who are trying to teach ID in schools believe. Most of them are Catholic, that's the only reason they are so fired up about the subject.

So the people who want to teach ID in schools believe that the earth is 6000 years old... And most of the people who want to get ID in the schools are Catholic... Wait, do you think that Catholics believe the earth is 6000 years old? ...