School Shootings

[nutshell]

I'm getting sick and tired of checking the news every day and learning there has been another school shooting, usually involving the sexual abuse or attempted abuse of girls.


What the hell can we do to get things under control? I'm ****** off, but feel helpless right now to do anything - perhaps that's most of the reason why I'm mad.

My first thought is don't give in to the aggressor. We need to teach our children and teachers to fight back before the aggressor establishes control. Perhaps we also need to place "emergency" buttons in every classroom so authorities/security etc. can be notified as soon as a potential threat arrives.

I'm just brainstorming right now. What would you do?

 

[Buttercup]

Block the media from reporting these cases. If my child were shot in an instance like this, I could care less if it was televised. Especially if the shooter were dead and there was no need for a manhunt.

It's clearly obvious to me that these recent shootings have fed off each other.

 

[Ciscokid]

The problem is the fact that evil exists. We can't stop it. Nobody could stop me from grabbing a shotgun, walking into a school and blasting people.

When you mix freedom with evil, you have things like this. I only live about 40 minutes away from the school that was terrorized in Lancaster. These Amish people don't hurt anyone, they exist in this community that they created over time. They are some of the nicest and giving people you'll ever meet.

For someone to walk into a one room school and hurt these kids is just EVIL. How do you stop it? Pray for extermination of the human race.

 

[evearael]

These events fill my with rage and heartbreak. On the personal level, it's another reason to homeschool because I think I can do a better job of protecting my family than the schools can. However, that simply isn't possible or desirable for every family so I agree a better solution is needed... What are we to do? Lockdown every school with armed guards and metal detectors? I remember in high school they introduced mandatory student id's that everyone had to display at all times and had cameras all over the place. Even with all those measures in place, if someone is truly bent on harming kids at school they will likely find a way, whether by attacking them on the playground or with more weapons to overpower the guards. I think panic buttons are a good idea, Nutshell.

I think society needs to be a lot more vigilant in pursuing sex offenders of all sorts and removing them from society. That horrid man molested a pair of little children aged three and four when he was about twelve. I wouldn't be surprised if he was molested as a child (and no that is NOT an excuse for his behavior). We need to figure out what creates these monsters and attack the root of the problem.

According to the CDC with regards to rape:

Risk Factors for Perpetration
Individual Factors

• Alcohol and drug use*
• Coercive sexual fantasies
• Impulsive and antisocial tendencies
• Preference for impersonal sex
• Hostility towards women
• Hypermasculinity
• Childhood history of sexual and physical abuse*
• Witnessed family violence as a child

Relationship Factors

• Association with sexually aggressive and delinquent peers
• Family environment characterized by physical violence and few resources
• Strong patriarchal relationship or familial environment
• Emotionally unsupportive familial environment

Community Factors

• Lack of employment opportunities
• Lack of institutional support from police and judicial system
• General tolerance of sexual assault within the community
• Settings that support sexual violence
• Weak community sanctions against sexual violence perpetrators

Societal Factors

• Poverty
• Societal norms that support sexual violence
• Societal norms that support male superiority and sexual entitlement
• Societal norms that maintain women’s inferiority and sexual submissiveness
• Weak laws and policies related to gender equity
• High tolerance levels of crime and other forms of violence

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I'm with you, NS. This has got to stop.

 

[Quiddity]

This stuff is getting out of hand. I'm not sure where to start on how to fix it though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think if they were not televised news events, it might lessen the amount since the shooter wont have 15 minutes of fame. Also giving details, such as games played, they were what ever type of person, wore whatever type of clothing, etc, would lessen stereotypes

 

[Booko]

My first thought is don't give in to the aggressor. We need to teach our children and teachers to fight back before the aggressor establishes control. Perhaps we also need to place "emergency" buttons in every classroom so authorities/security etc. can be notified as soon as a potential threat arrives.

I'm just brainstorming right now. What would you do?

Sorry, Nutshell, but I've stared at a few gun barrels in my lifetime, and you don't take on someone who's armed unless you feel like today is a good day to die.

Unless we arm teachers, they cannot fight back against these sorts of situations. A button is no defense against a gun. The only thing that stops someone like this is a bullet in the head, I'm sorry to say. But under no conditions do we allow arms in the schools, even in a trained ex-military asst. principal's hands. Go figure.

Here's all I personally can do:

1. I teach my son to be a decent man and to actively discourage his male friends from attitudes that disrespect women. Even more important -- his father teaches him these things, and he's even tougher than I am on the subject. :cover: I also teach my son about the inequalities of men and women, and how that puts women in a position where every day they have to make choices about where and when they go, while men don't have to think that way very often. He needs to understand what women's lives are like, for the sake of his future wife and maybe daughters, and so he can spread the word in his lifetime that this needs to stop.

2. I teach my daughter how prevalent abuse of girls and women is, and try to pass on what street smarts I can. A Louisville slugger is a handy thing in your car, at the very least. If anyone truly goes after you, you don't telegraph what you're about and you don't take half-measures. Either get away or take them out immediately. The middle road does not work here.

3. I teach both my kids to be self-reliant as much as one can, and when a dangerous situation arises, to know what their limitations are. If you don't have a gun, you can't take on someone with a gun. If you're set free -- go find someone with the power to end the situation. Kids so often try to solve things at their own level when they just don't have the power to do so.

4. Encourage parents to actually BE parents.

This, quite frankly, is the toughest one of all, because bad parents aren't in much of a position to hear what you have to say, no matter how toned down and kindly you say it.

My generation thought that corporal punishment was bad, and we were right about that. And we thought repression was bad, and we were right about that. And we thought "Because I said so" was a bad reason, and we were right about that.

So we took all those things that were bad parental practices and replaced them with...nothing at all. And we wonder how we ended up where we are now?

We have left a mess in many ways, and it will be our grandchildren and greatgrandchildren who will be doing the work of cleaning it up.

Not much of a legacy, is it?

 

[Booko]

Block the media from reporting these cases. If my child were shot in an instance like this, I could care less if it was televised. Especially if the shooter were dead and there was no need for a manhunt.

It's clearly obvious to me that these recent shootings have fed off each other.

I thought as much too, Buttercup. Here we have one shooting where the boys are let go and the girls attacked, and then a couple of days later some guy snaps and...the same thing? If that's a coincidence, well, that just doesn't seem likely there was no influence at all, does it?

On several occasions, after some news story like this is on, I've had a dream where something awful happens to us and the reporter shoves a microphone in my face, and what happens afterward, in the nicest version, is that I deck the SOB.

Ah, when that happens, I decide that, like the Paul Simon says, "I get all the news I need on the weather report."

We have a media now that presents news stories as "national" as long as it requires little time for investigation, has great pictures, and people to interview. What this means is I turn on the 24/7 news and learn the breathtakingly important story that "Fred's barn burned down" in some state where there is nothing I can do about it and it is of no importance outside the immediate community. And that's worthy of national news coverage? But still, someone is tuning in and giving them ratings. That doesn't say much good about Americans, I'm afraid.

Truly, Jon Stewart is a better news editor than the major organizations these days.

I'm afraid we've arrived at destination of the ancient Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times. :help:

 

[zombieharlot]

Marilyn Manson wrote an article in Rolling Stone Magazine a little while after he was blamed for the Columbine shooting. Here are two paragraphs that I find particularly relevant to this discussion.

"The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dip****s Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

We applaud the creation of a bomb whose sole purpose is to destroy all of mankind, and we grow up watching our president's brains splattered all over Texas. Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised. Does anyone think the Civil War was the least bit civil? If television had existed, you could be sure they would have been there to cover it, or maybe even participate in it, like their violent car chase of Princess Di. Disgusting vultures looking for corpses, exploiting, *******, filming and serving it up for our hungry appetites in a gluttonous display of endless human stupidity."

Clipped from http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5923915/columbine_whose_fault_is_it

I'm getting sick and tired of checking the news every day and learning there has been another school shooting, usually involving the sexual abuse or attempted abuse of girls.


What the hell can we do to get things under control? I'm ****** off, but feel helpless right now to do anything - perhaps that's most of the reason why I'm mad.

My first thought is don't give in to the aggressor. We need to teach our children and teachers to fight back before the aggressor establishes control. Perhaps we also need to place "emergency" buttons in every classroom so authorities/security etc. can be notified as soon as a potential threat arrives.

I'm just brainstorming right now. What would you do?

With everything said, I would think that the best thing to do is to stop televising everything. A string of school shootings? It all started with one. And inspiration for other deranged and hopeless individuals grows from there.

 

[sparc872]

Attempting to solve these problems by placing more guards and panic buttons in schools is not properly taking care of the problem. People will do good things if they are taught properly, we do not need a police state in order to behave. If you ask me, that sort of enforcement actually encourages rebellion.

We have much deeper problems in our society that we need to address. I don't know what exactly they are, but I suspect it has something to do with the violence in our society on so many levels. I don't know the biography of all of these people that do these things, so I am extremely limited in making plans for taking care of the problem.

Anybody else got a clue?

 

[cardero]

I'm getting sick and tired of checking the news every day and learning there has been another school shooting, usually involving the sexual abuse or attempted abuse of girls.


What the hell can we do to get things under control? I'm ****** off, but feel helpless right now to do anything - perhaps that's most of the reason why I'm mad.

My first thought is don't give in to the aggressor. We need to teach our children and teachers to fight back before the aggressor establishes control. Perhaps we also need to place "emergency" buttons in every classroom so authorities/security etc. can be notified as soon as a potential threat arrives.

I'm just brainstorming right now. What would you do?

Start teaching kids at home.

 

[Booko]

Marilyn Manson wrote an article in Rolling Stone Magazine a little while after he was blamed for the Columbine shooting. Here are two paragraphs that I find particularly relevant to this discussion.

I remember after that, when Marilyn Manson was being painted by so many as somehow evil. And I caught a very short interview with him, and thought he seemed like one of the saner people I'd heard at that time.

Thanks for confirming that impression.

With everything said, I would think that the best thing to do is to stop televising everything. A string of school shootings? It all started with one. And inspiration for other deranged and hopeless individuals grows from there.

I agree, but it won't happen, because it makes for good ratings, and the 5 companies that feed us our news want to make money.

I've had the teevee news essentially off since the shooting near Circle_One. I refuse to play their silly game, and emailed the networks to let them know why I turned them off.

It's a valid news story, but it doesn't have to be plastered all over everything nonstop?

Go ahead and report school shootings. In print. No pictures.

I wonder if that would have an effect? It would be worth a try.

 

[Booko]

We have much deeper problems in our society that we need to address. I don't know what exactly they are, but I suspect it has something to do with the violence in our society on so many levels. I don't know the biography of all of these people that do these things, so I am extremely limited in making plans for taking care of the problem.

The root of the problem in our society is that we have come to value money more than human life, overall.

The only way to change that is one heart at a time.

There are no political fixes, really, because the problem is ultimately not political.

There are some political bandaids we can and should apply to our bleeding patient, though.

 

[PureX]

In pretty much every case, the people who did these horrible crimes felt isolated and ignored by their society, by their families, by their classmates or co-workers, by the government, and by God. And the sad truth is that they were right. They WERE ignored and dismissed by everyone, and left to wallow in their own anger and resentment until they exploded. Why? Why were these people so ignored and dismissed and left to wallow in their resentment like that?

Until we begin to answer this question, and we begin to take responsibility for that answer, nothing will change.

 

[dawny0826]

I'm getting sick and tired of checking the news every day and learning there has been another school shooting, usually involving the sexual abuse or attempted abuse of girls.


What the hell can we do to get things under control? I'm ****** off, but feel helpless right now to do anything - perhaps that's most of the reason why I'm mad.

My first thought is don't give in to the aggressor. We need to teach our children and teachers to fight back before the aggressor establishes control. Perhaps we also need to place "emergency" buttons in every classroom so authorities/security etc. can be notified as soon as a potential threat arrives.

I'm just brainstorming right now. What would you do?

First off, I'd ask the media to STOP over reporting such events, so that the morons who are capable and willing to do such horrible acts won't have the idea in their face 24/7.

I'd encourage schools (and perhaps volunteer my own time and effort) to call in guest speakers to speak at PTA meetings, school events, in classrooms...anywhere that talks could be fit in...on safety awareness.

And for the kids who bring guns to school and commit such pointless crimes...we'd have fewer of these crimes if parents would get their act together and take responsibility for teaching their children right from wrong, exercising common sense in the process.

 

[Bishka]

Don't televise it, that just makes it worse.

 

[kai]

a man developes a mental illness and in his warped and twisted mind he decideds to kill himself and take some children out with him now add to this equastion the fact that in his truck were three or four pistols rifles etc all perfectly legal. i am not saying he couldnt have got a gun here where they are illegal (its happened here too) but to be so easy to get hold of, is it really necessary this throw back to the wild west with every mans right to own a gun. its one of the main enigmas to me of american life the prevelence of firearms.

oh i know some of you are going to say a gun doesnt kill you the guy thats firing it does but come on!

 

[Booko]

a man developes a mental illness and in his warped and twisted mind he decideds to kill himself and take some children out with him now add to this equastion the fact that in his truck were three or four pistols rifles etc all perfectly legal. i am not saying he couldnt have got a gun here where they are illegal (its happened here too) but to be so easy to get hold of, is it really necessary this throw back to the wild west with every mans right to own a gun. its one of the main enigmas to me of american life the prevelence of firearms.

oh i know some of you are going to say a gun doesnt kill you the guy thats firing it does but come on!

The thing you folks across the pond forget is that there are still some parts of this country where the name of a person who goes out unarmed is "fool."

I've been quite lucky with my runins with bears and big cats, but I know better than to traipse around some areas during some times of the year without something to back me up.

And there are also some parts of this country where people depend on hunting for part of their food supply.

There's a reason why we have a right to have guns here.

Though none of these are really reasons the Founding Dads put in the 2nd Amendment. It was because they understood that an unamred populace is more easily oppressed than an armed one. They gave us the right to bear arms as a protection against tyranny.

They learned the importance of this from seeing the problems with European governmental oppression, I might add.

 

[kai]

The thing you folks across the pond forget is that there are still some parts of this country where the name of a person who goes out unarmed is "fool." it would have to be a gradual process to get rid of them it wold take decades to do and change peoples mind set

I've been quite lucky with my runins with bears and big cats, but I know better than to traipse around some areas during some times of the year without something to back me up.
i can see that
And there are also some parts of this country where people depend on hunting for part of their food supply. well i am not sure about that but i will take your word on it

There's a reason why we have a right to have guns here. what is it? because then you have the reason so many are shot there!

Though none of these are really reasons the Founding Dads put in the 2nd Amendment. It was because they understood that an unamred populace is more easily oppressed than an armed one. They gave us the right to bear arms as a protection against tyranny. so is that relevent in America today!

They learned the importance of this from seeing the problems with European governmental oppression, I might add.

again what is the relevancy to todays america
I am expecting a ( out of my cold dead hand ) kind of backlash and its not quite a criticism more of acomplete astonishment at the mindset of every mans right to carry a "lethal weapon" in a 21st century democracy