Schism, a Western phenomenon?

[Quiddity]

Why do you think there are more schisms in western religions then eastern religions?

Do you think there are more schisms in the west?

What do you attribute this to?

What triggered this was [Post#20]:

I wonder why this doesn't happen to the same degree among Muslims?

I have many disagreements with my fellow Muslims, even among my own specific people. I don't celebrate Muhammed's birthday, many Bosniaks do. I don't believe women aren't allowed at mosque on Kurban Bajram, most Bosniaks do.

And the differences vary depending on which particular group of Muslims we're talking about... but the fractures don't seem to manifest themselves to the same degree among us? I would never even think of saying I wasn't Muslim, or I was kind of Muslim, because my beliefs differ from others who hold the same religious banner.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45472&page=2

 

[Buttons*]

Why do you think there are more schisms in western religions then eastern religions?

Do you think there are more schisms in the west?

What do you attribute this to?

What triggered this was [Post#20]:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45472&page=2

Because people in the west have this habit of wanting to be right.... or forcing others to believe that they're right... instead of accepting differences, we like to fight over it or separate ourselves.

I think there are probably equal amounts of schism anywhere, it's just that the west is more publicised? I could be wrong. There might be more actual set divisions or boundries in Western faith, but that doesn't mean people don't gather together if they have a different belief than what is normal.

Tell me if i'm wrong somewhere, i'll be happy to learn

 

[Sunstone]

If there are more schisms in the West than elsewhere, it might have something to do with Western individualism, which goes back to the ancient Greeks at the very least.

 

[Engyo]

Who says there are more schisms in Western religions than in Eastern religions? My particular school of Buddhism follows this tree:
Buddhism--Mahayana Buddhism--Japanese Mahayana--Tendai--Nichiren
and there are 40 different Nichiren schools.

Here is some data (10 years old) for your perusal:
Figures from the Japanese Ministry of Culture for 1997 (unlikely to have changed in relative proportions):

Top ten Buddhist schools in Japan in terms of population:
1. Jōdoshin-shū Hongwanji-ha 6,940,000
2. Jōdo-shū 6,030,000
3. Shin-shū Ōtani-ha 5,530,000
4. Kōyasan Shingon-shū 5,480,000
5. Nichiren-shū 3,810,000
6. Sōtō-shū 1,570,000
7. Shingon-shū Chizan-ha 1,530,000
8. Shingon-shū Buzan-ha 1,200,000
9. Tendai-shū 610,000
10. Shingon-shū Daigo-ha 560,000

Top ten in numbers of temples in Japan:
1. Sōtō-shū 14,699
2. Jōdoshin-shū Hongwanji-ha 10,488
3. Shin-shū Ōtani-ha 8,881
4. Jōdo-shū 7,080
5. Nichiren-shū 5,238
6. Kōyasan Shingon-shū 3,615
7. Rinzai-shū Myōshinji-ha 3,406
8. Tendai-shū 3,349
9. Shingon-shū Chizan-ha 2,893
10. Shingon-shū Buzan-ha 2,656

And these are only the established Buddhist schools with temples dating back to the Tokugawa times; this does not take any of Japan's "New Religions" (which are mostly Buddhist or Buddhist offshoot) into account.

 

[Ozzie]

If there are more schisms in the West than elsewhere, it might have something to do with Western individualism, which goes back to the ancient Greeks at the very least.

I agree. Western religions that happen to be monotheist support a notion of personal unity by belief in one god. Maybe that is one of the factors in the strength of the individual ethos in the West. Also monotheism, by promoting personal unity/self as a concept, may be more reliant on doctrine than Eastern religions because stringent adherence to doctrine strengthens personal identity still more. Hence doctrines become points of division/fracture between individuals.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If there are more schisms in the West than elsewhere, it might have something to do with Western individualism, which goes back to the ancient Greeks at the very least.

Ditto.

Western civilizations also seem to change more frequently than others (unless I read my history wrong), which probably goes back to this individualistic mindset. Competition for ideas is more fierce when a society bases itself in individual accomplishment rather than group accomplishment.

This can be seen in the switch from having a common land mentality to private land ownership in England during the Renaissance. No longer was land to be shared, it was to be "owned" and competed over.

 

[Ozzie]

Who says there are more schisms in Western religions than in Eastern religions? My particular school of Buddhism follows this tree:
Buddhism--Mahayana Buddhism--Japanese Mahayana--Tendai--Nichiren
and there are 40 different Nichiren schools.

Here is some data (10 years old) for your perusal:
Figures from the Japanese Ministry of Culture for 1997 (unlikely to have changed in relative proportions):

Top ten Buddhist schools in Japan in terms of population:
1. Jōdoshin-shū Hongwanji-ha 6,940,000
2. Jōdo-shū 6,030,000
3. Shin-shū Ōtani-ha 5,530,000
4. Kōyasan Shingon-shū 5,480,000
5. Nichiren-shū 3,810,000
6. Sōtō-shū 1,570,000
7. Shingon-shū Chizan-ha 1,530,000
8. Shingon-shū Buzan-ha 1,200,000
9. Tendai-shū 610,000
10. Shingon-shū Daigo-ha 560,000

Top ten in numbers of temples in Japan:
1. Sōtō-shū 14,699
2. Jōdoshin-shū Hongwanji-ha 10,488
3. Shin-shū Ōtani-ha 8,881
4. Jōdo-shū 7,080
5. Nichiren-shū 5,238
6. Kōyasan Shingon-shū 3,615
7. Rinzai-shū Myōshinji-ha 3,406
8. Tendai-shū 3,349
9. Shingon-shū Chizan-ha 2,893
10. Shingon-shū Buzan-ha 2,656

And these are only the established Buddhist schools with temples dating back to the Tokugawa times; this does not take any of Japan's "New Religions" (which are mostly Buddhist or Buddhist offshoot) into account.

But would you agree there is more likely to be more exclusive/stringent adherence or attachment to splinter groups/schism in monotheism as a function of spiritual outlook than Buddhism?

 

[Ozzie]

Ditto.

Western civilizations also seem to change more frequently than others (unless I read my history wrong), which probably goes back to this individualistic mindset. Competition for ideas is more fierce when a society bases itself in individual accomplishment rather than group accomplishment.

This can be seen in the switch from having a common land mentality to private land ownership in England during the Renaissance. No longer was land to be shared, it was to be "owned" and competed over.

Another point might be that logical/scientific thinking patterns common to Western thought might predispose a commitment to a particular religious affiliation. Such forced choice is compatible with the individual mindset you speak of and its sense of strong identity. Enlightenment thinking is based on a concept of the individual. Scientific thinking is an offshoot of this also. But monotheism pre-dates both.

 

[Engyo]

But would you agree there is more likely to be more exclusive/stringent adherence or attachment to splinter groups/schism in monotheism as a function of spiritual outlook than Buddhism?

In practice I would have to say no. Take a look at Japanese history, or how there came to be so many different versions of Tibetan Buddhism for that matter..........Even the historical Buddhist councils came about because of sectarianism. I think it is much more a fact of human nature than of any one philosophical or religious system.

 

[Quiddity]

In practice I would have to say no. Take a look at Japanese history, or how there came to be so many different versions of Tibetan Buddhism for that matter..........Even the historical Buddhist councils came about because of sectarianism. I think it is much more a fact of human nature than of any one philosophical or religious system.

My thoughts exactly. Masterfully said...

 

[Ozzie]

In practice I would have to say no. Take a look at Japanese history, or how there came to be so many different versions of Tibetan Buddhism for that matter..........Even the historical Buddhist councils came about because of sectarianism. I think it is much more a fact of human nature than of any one philosophical or religious system.

In practice, I agree. But as a practising Buddhist do you think there is no difference as a function of religious outlook in terms of attachment to sectarian ideas between Buddhism and monotheism? I agree we are a political animal in nature so sectarianism is universal, but is level of attachment to a particular sect unchanged where individual identity is strenghtened (monotheism) vs. weakened (buddhism)?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Another point might be that logical/scientific thinking patterns common to Western thought might predispose a commitment to a particular religious affiliation. Such forced choice is compatible with the individual mindset you speak of and its sense of strong identity. Enlightenment thinking is based on a concept of the individual. Scientific thinking is an offshoot of this also.

Again, ditto.