Satan

[kmkemp]

I would love to see a purely Bible-based explanation on how Satan came to be. I really think that the Bible doesn't adequately explain Satan's origin for it to be such a widely held belief (that it, it seems to be assumed to be true without scriptural backing) that he was originally a high ranking angel that rebelled against God.

Perhaps my knowledge is lacking, but I would love to see verses that clearly support this common belief.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If I remember right, there's actually very little about Satan in the Bible, and much of our mythology about him came many years after the Bible--and mostly from artistic interpretations.

 

[Katzpur]

I would love to see a purely Bible-based explanation on how Satan came to be. I really think that the Bible doesn't adequately explain Satan's origin for it to be such a widely held belief (that it, it seems to be assumed to be true without scriptural backing) that he was originally a high ranking angel that rebelled against God.

Perhaps my knowledge is lacking, but I would love to see verses that clearly support this common belief.

I don't believe there are any, but then I don't believe that something must be clearly explained in the Bible in order for it to be true.

 

[EtuMalku]

Satan is not in the New Testament, try the Old Testament. Satan is Hebrew named

 

[The Seeker]

Satan is not in the New Testament, try the Old Testament. Satan is Hebrew named

Satan is indeed in the NT as he tempted Jesus. I did a search for verses about Satan in the Bible and came up with nothing that talked about his origin.

 

[Vassal]

Here are some verses:

Isaiah 14:12-15 (KJV) 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Ezekiel 28:12-19 (KJV) 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Revelation 20:10 (NLT) Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Quagmire]

I would love to see a purely Bible-based explanation on how Satan came to be. I really think that the Bible doesn't adequately explain Satan's origin for it to be such a widely held belief (that it, it seems to be assumed to be true without scriptural backing) that he was originally a high ranking angel that rebelled against God.

Perhaps my knowledge is lacking, but I would love to see verses that clearly support this common belief.

Great thread topic Kmkemp. You're right; the idea of Satan as a fallen angel and the leader of a host of fallen angels is completely absent in the Old Testament.

The earliest reference to him as such is found in the apochraphal texts such as The war of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness and The Book of Enoch written sometime just prior to the first century.

The idea of Satan as the enemy of God/Prince of evil was almost certainly borrowed from the dualistic theology of zorastorian myth which the Israelites were exposed to during the Babylonian captivity (6th cent. BCE) and incorporated into their own theology.

You can actually see the transformation take place over the course of the OT itself;

in 2 Samuel 24:1 it says "And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Isreal, and incited David against them and said to him, 'Go, number Isreal and Judah'".

But in 1 Chronicles 21:1, a later retelling of the same incident we read, "And then Satan stood up against Isreal and provoked David to number Isreal"

See what I'm saying?

 

[ChristineES]

It actually says no where that Satan and Lucifer are the same being. Satan was called "The Accusor" in Job, he tempted Jesus in three of the four gospels. That seems to be his purpose, to accuse and to test. I am not convince that Satan was the serpent in Genesis, either.

 

[kmkemp]

Lucifer actually means "Day Star". I'm not really familiar enough with the Hebrew culture of the time to know how that got associated with Satan. Maybe someone can enlighten me. It seems that the passage in Isaiah was in reference to a Babylonian king and not referring to Satan at all, but I could definitely be missing something.

 

[FFH]

I would love to see a purely Bible-based explanation on how Satan came to be. I really think that the Bible doesn't adequately explain Satan's origin for it to be such a widely held belief (that it, it seems to be assumed to be true without scriptural backing) that he was originally a high ranking angel that rebelled against God.

Perhaps my knowledge is lacking, but I would love to see verses that clearly support this common belief.

Again this is something that's not found in the King james, simply because that text was taken from the Masoretic text, which is an altered original Hebrew text...

Many pages of Genesis are missing from the Masoretic text and subsequently the King James...

Genesis 1-13 restored is now known as the book of Moses, part of LDS scripture, given to Joseph Smith through revelation from God...

This is the verse in Genesis 4 which was omitted from the Masoretic text, which the King James was translated from,

Moses 4: 3 (restored verse from Genesis 4)

Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

 

[gnostic]

Genesis 1-13 restored is now known as the book of Moses, part of LDS scripture, given to Joseph Smith through revelation from God...

I know that you are Mormon, so you rely on what Joseph Smith have written and taught, and that you believe in him, because he is your 1st prophet and all, and as founder of the LDS church.

However, outside of LDS, Joseph Smith is not a credible source in regarding to what was written in the Old Testament. The Inspired King James' Version or even the Masoretic Texts would only whole weights within the LDS church, not outside of it.

(If my older sister or her husband got winds of what I have written, they would probably never talk to me ever again. *sigh* This is the reason I seldom talk about them church and prophet...or even about religion in general.)

So forgives me for saying this. No one other than you and your fellow-LDS will consider Smith's addition to Genesis 4 as valid, because no other sources have this quote from Moses 4:3.

I do have a question for you, in regarding to Moses 4:3.

Is Moses 4:3 supposed to correspond to Genesis 4:3?

Are you referring verse 4? It certainly doesn't fit into chapter 4.

Because it doesn't seem to match. 4:3 in Genesis is about Cain and Abel:

In the course of time, Cain brought an offering to the LORD from the fruit of the soil.

There is absolutely no mention of Satan anywhere in Genesis by name, thus no "Satan". The link between the serpent and Satan has only been implied through interpretation. As I have stated in past topics, I find the idea of talking serpent to be nothing more than fable and that its link to Satan is extremely tenuous at best.

 

[gnostic]

To Vassal:

In regarding to Isaiah 14:12-15, this chapter is about the King of Babylon, not Satan. The reference to Lucifer, or son of the Morning Star, is merely simile or motif for the king and the empire of Babylonia; it does not refer to as being equivalent to Satan.

This quote is equally tenuous.

For goodness' sake, it mention the King of Babylon at the early verses of Isaiah 14, and it referred to this chapter as being the song to the King of Babylon. How clear is that?

 

[Ðanisty]

Lucifer actually means "Day Star". I'm not really familiar enough with the Hebrew culture of the time to know how that got associated with Satan. Maybe someone can enlighten me. It seems that the passage in Isaiah was in reference to a Babylonian king and not referring to Satan at all, but I could definitely be missing something.

Actually more specifically, it comes from the latin lux ferre which translates to "lightbringer." However, he is associated with the morning star which is actually the planet Venus.

 

[may]

It actually says no where that Satan and Lucifer are the same being. Satan was called "The Accusor" in Job, he tempted Jesus in three of the four gospels. That seems to be his purpose, to accuse and to test. I am not convince that Satan was the serpent in Genesis, either.

So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. revelation 12;9

 

[may]

Lucifer actually means "Day Star". I'm not really familiar enough with the Hebrew culture of the time to know how that got associated with Satan. Maybe someone can enlighten me. It seems that the passage in Isaiah was in reference to a Babylonian king and not referring to Satan at all, but I could definitely be missing something.

yes that is true it was refering to the babylonian rulers and not to satan himself , but it seems that they had the same attitute as satan , even trying to be better than God , and that is what satan did in the garden of eden , he went against the commands of God and told eve to do the opposite to Gods commands , in fact he was putting himself up as the most high, he was saying to eve eat the fruit , but God said dont eat the fruit , that is a no no . and the issue of universal sovreignty is an on going thing even right now . satan and devil means resister, opposer and slanderer

Satan​

the Devil​

Definition: The spirit creature who is the chief adversary of Jehovah God and of all who worship the true God. The name Satan was given to him because of his becoming a resister of Jehovah. Satan is also known as the Devil, because he is the foremost slanderer of God. Satan is described as the original serpent, evidently because of his using a serpent in Eden to deceive Eve, and for this reason "serpent" came to signify "deceiver." In the book of Revelation, the symbolism of a devouring dragon is also applied to Satan.

 

[kadzbiz]

.... but then I don't believe that something must be clearly explained in the Bible in order for it to be true.

:biglaugh: You got that right sister! What a cop out for the Bible. Bwah ha ha!

......Satan is described as the original serpent, evidently because of his using a serpent in Eden to deceive Eve, and for this reason "serpent" came to signify "deceiver." In the book of Revelation, the symbolism of a devouring dragon is also applied to Satan.

I don't see how the serpent deceived Eve. What the serpent said was completely true and correct, so how did it deceive?! If anything, the serpent was a tool of God to test Eve and then Adam, and then condemned by God to slither on its belly for its work. No wonder, if the serpent was in fact Satan, he became evil.

 

[Ðanisty]

So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. revelation 12;9

This quote talks of the Devil and Satan, but unless you left something out, it makes no mention of Lucifer. I don't understand how you can use this quote as proof that Lucifer and Satan are the same.

 

[Special Revelation]

I would love to see a purely Bible-based explanation on how Satan came to be. I really think that the Bible doesn't adequately explain Satan's origin for it to be such a widely held belief (that it, it seems to be assumed to be true without scriptural backing) that he was originally a high ranking angel that rebelled against God.

Perhaps my knowledge is lacking, but I would love to see verses that clearly support this common belief.

Satan is no myth. He is alive and well dwelling in our world. Morning Star is also translated Lucifer. The word Lucifer means shining one, but translators have often rendered it "morning star". Here is the account of the fall of Satan (Lucifer).

Isaiah 14:12-14
How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."

Christianity is described as a spiritual warfare against Satan and the fallen angels (demons). Compare this with God's elect Angels who did not follow Satan (1 Tim). Ephesians 6 tells us our enemy is Satan, his fallen angels and his servants

Ephesians 6 - The Armor of God
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

 

[Special Revelation]

Satan appears to us as an angel of light. His servants also appear as servants of righteousness in the world. According to the Bible, Satan's servants appear in religious institutions ( Bible references in the Thread "Nine Enemies of Truth").

2 Corinthians 11- Paul and the False Apostles

I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.

Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so. As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine. Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[Special Revelation]

This quote talks of the Devil and Satan, but unless you left something out, it makes no mention of Lucifer. I don't understand how you can use this quote as proof that Lucifer and Satan are the same.

Isaiah 14 - King James Version
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Darby Translation
12How art thou fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art cut down to the ground, that didst prostrate the nations!

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?