logician
Well-Known Member
Actually, the existence of anything should not be based upon someone's or some group's belief in it, it should stand on its own merit.
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Satan: A Child of God?
- Thread starter Katzpur
- Start date
Actually, the existence of anything should not be based upon someone's or some group's belief in it, it should stand on its own merit.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
True that. we can agree on that. it is our definition of Merit that has us at odds.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Okay, so he was "a creation by God." Was he a child of God?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
So angels and children of God are mutually exclusive beings? I'm just wondering whether the Bible actually explains what angels are. I've always thought of them as heavenly messengers, but I don't see any reason why they could not also be children of God. Based on the recorded appearances of angels in the Bible, they do appear to have a human form.
FFH
Veteran Member
Like I said before it's a loose term.
Angel Moroni (Child of God)
Satan and his angels (Son's of Hell) as are the Son's of Perdition
An angel is nothing more than a spirit or a resurrected being.
Satan is an angel, but a fallen one of course, and although he is a literal spirit child (the offspring) of God, he is now a son of hell and should be referred to that way.
FFH
Veteran Member
Satan ~ Fear, Hate, Despair
God ~ Faith, Love, Hope
Yet we are commanded to "fear God" and "work out your (our) own salvation with fear and trembling". See this link: Fear
Philippians 2: 12 and Mormon 9: 27 (work out your own salvation with fear and trembling)
2 Timothy 1: 7
[SIZE=-1]God hath not given us the spirit of fear, [/SIZE]but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
madhatter85
Transhumanist
I posted the scripture in another thread but i think it also applies here as to help peopel understand the LDS view of the nature of Satan.
FFH
Veteran Member
Yeah, Satan is that indeed.
Aasimar
Atheist
Yeah, I don't recall any scriptures with Satan telling me to "Look to my own salvation in fear and trembling."
Pretty sure that was God.
Lemme check...
Phillipeans 2:12
definately not Satan...
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I don't think we're quite on the same wavelength, FFH, and I'm really surprised that you haven't yet picked up on where I'm going with this thread yet. Michel referred to Satan (aka Lucifer, at least to most Christians, including the Latter-day Saints) as a "son of God." Now I am as aware as you are that he forfeited the right to be known as a son of God when he was cast out of God's presence, but I am trying to determine whether there are people besides michel who believe that he was a son of God, or if he was some other sort of creation.
I just don't seem to be getting many very direct responses to my question, even though people do have quite a bit to say about him. I guess I should have started a poll.
FFH
Veteran Member
I know what you're trying to do, just filling in the blanks for those who would rather just cut to the chase and know the truth, rather than wonder about it for days, weeks, months or years and be totally in the dark.
Sorry if I interfered with what you were trying to do here.
It's just so important to come out and state that Satan is/was a literal son of God, who rebelled.
There is an interesting account, given by an LDS former Idaho senator, who had a "near death experience," he describes Satan as having continually "bugged" God to change things, of course God will not budge on his Plan of Happiness, and eventually Satan and his followers, our literal spirit brothers and sisters, were cast out of heaven forever, which was definitely not a happy day in heaven for sure, according to this LDS NDE account, very interesting account of key events that took place in heaven, including Christ's choice to leave heaven, come to earth and die for us, and upon his return to heaven there was much rejoicing in heaven.
Of course Satan wanted to be a dictator and a bully and "force" everyone into heaven, which is the opposite of God's "Plan of Happiness," in which we are free to choose life or death, happiness or misery, heaven or hell, righteousness or wickedness and all that lies in the midst.
God's way is the "free" way. We are free to choose for ourselves, God will still be God no matter what we choose.
Satan is so angry with all of us for having just chosen to come to earth and obtain bodies, rather than follow him in the pre-existence.
He has some serious egocentric issues obviously.
Okay carry on I won't interfere, at least for now.
Sorry if I interfered with what you were trying to do here.
It's just so important to come out and state that Satan is/was a literal son of God, who rebelled.
There is an interesting account, given by an LDS former Idaho senator, who had a "near death experience," he describes Satan as having continually "bugged" God to change things, of course God will not budge on his Plan of Happiness, and eventually Satan and his followers, our literal spirit brothers and sisters, were cast out of heaven forever, which was definitely not a happy day in heaven for sure, according to this LDS NDE account, very interesting account of key events that took place in heaven, including Christ's choice to leave heaven, come to earth and die for us, and upon his return to heaven there was much rejoicing in heaven.
Of course Satan wanted to be a dictator and a bully and "force" everyone into heaven, which is the opposite of God's "Plan of Happiness," in which we are free to choose life or death, happiness or misery, heaven or hell, righteousness or wickedness and all that lies in the midst.
God's way is the "free" way. We are free to choose for ourselves, God will still be God no matter what we choose.
Satan is so angry with all of us for having just chosen to come to earth and obtain bodies, rather than follow him in the pre-existence.
He has some serious egocentric issues obviously.
Okay carry on I won't interfere, at least for now.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Then what of the Plagues of Egypt? Sores and death were just two of them.
God did create Satan, so that would make him a child of God. However, I see Satan as a child who rebelled against an oppressive father.
cardero
Citizen Mod
And if you believe that movie was an exemplary example of the character Constatine than you have already supported my viewpoint in Post #12.
So they're just like physical entities then? This is still no reason for name calling.
It would be far easier and reassuring for one to transverse this earth if it was covered in mines than to try to second guess the will and emotions that some people ascribe to their deities.
cardero
Citizen Mod
I'm kind of wondering what you are implying by "children" Katzpur. You are not designating GOD as a Father figure, are you?
cardero
Citizen Mod
What is the opposite of love?
Fear.
HELLO IT'S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Truth, Love And Understanding
Pg: 145
I may have existed the longest and experienced lifetimes of wisdom, but it does not give ME the authority to rule over YOU. It also does not mean YOU should fear ME.
HELLO IT'S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: The One True GOD?
Pg: 326
GOD does not want our fear. One can never know GOD if one fears Him.
Old Testament Satan is just an angel doing his job (to accuse man). God and Satan hung out like buddies. (Satan was not the serpent in the garden of Eden.)
But the New Testament comes along. It increases God's power and makes Satan the villian. But as pointed out earlier it makes no sense. How could one angel convince 1/3 of the angels to go to war with the most powerful being in all of existance? It would imply that they did not believe God was all powerful.
But Satan is an interesting idea. I once proposed that the Trinity could be amended to be the Quartet with Satan as the fourth member. It makes as much sense as the Trinity and adds extra fun in interpreting the Bible. For example, the Bible says that Satan incited David to count his fighting men. It also says that God did it. A Quartet would explain it.
But in the original premise, if God made Satan directly, then Satan would be his child.
But the New Testament comes along. It increases God's power and makes Satan the villian. But as pointed out earlier it makes no sense. How could one angel convince 1/3 of the angels to go to war with the most powerful being in all of existance? It would imply that they did not believe God was all powerful.
But Satan is an interesting idea. I once proposed that the Trinity could be amended to be the Quartet with Satan as the fourth member. It makes as much sense as the Trinity and adds extra fun in interpreting the Bible. For example, the Bible says that Satan incited David to count his fighting men. It also says that God did it. A Quartet would explain it.
But in the original premise, if God made Satan directly, then Satan would be his child.
cardero
Citizen Mod
Somebody actually tried to tally the body count committed at/by the Biblical God's hand.
gospeakit.com - Bible Body Count
Yes, there may be evil afoot, but his name ain't Satan. Satan can be likened to a pesky fly compared with these statistics.