Samson: For Torath Mosheh Jews Only

[David Davidovich]

Thus, if their "potential" complaints consistantely fall of deaf ears and if we humans can't even identify the compliant in a detailed way - one can say that IF they such complaints they have no way of conveying them in a meaningful way. They further, don't have the ability to change the behavior of their predators thus whatever they have, in this theory, is pretty much non-existant.

Well, to me, it doesn't look or sound like they're not complaining or meaningfully conveying pain or distress.

And as far as not having the ability to change the behavior of their predators, I really don't see how that is relevant.

 

[David Davidovich]

Thus, if their "potential" complaints consistantely fall of deaf ears and if we humans can't even identify the compliant in a detailed way - one can say that IF they such complaints they have no way of conveying them in a meaningful way.

I still don't see your point. Therefore, since animals cannot communicate in human language, it takes us as human beings to be able to observe various forms of animal suffering and not wait for a dog or a chicken to tell us.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I still don't see your point. Therefore, since animals cannot communicate in human language, it takes us as human beings to be able to observe various forms of animal suffering and not wait for a dog or a chicken to tell us.

No. Animals don't complain to their predators about the predator's treatment of them. They either survive the encounter or they don't. Animals don't have the ability to communicate to their predators to convince them to change their diet. Animals who are prey are in some cases also predators who themselves don't communicate with their prey. Further, male dominance between is not something they complain about. A male either succeeds or he doesn't. Further, insects can be considered animals in their world where are their complaints lodged?

Thus, animals are not human in the sense that they can contempalte and communicate their feelings about the natural world. They simple exist in it and survive it or they don't. They further don't show signs of considering why they are here and what is their purpose in the scheme of things. Most, also don't show signs of contemplating the universe.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Who says that their complaints fall on deaf ears?

But I looked up some other interesting perspectives on the web.


Do wild animals suffer immensely when hunted by a wild predator, or are there mechanisms at work (such as adrenaline) that alleviate any suffering?


Psychological stress in wild animals

Also, see How do animals tolerate pain when being eaten alive? I watched a program where hyenas ate a zebra, and the animal was calm.

Who says their complaints fall on deaf ears? The fact that predators continue to hunt them and when successful eat them.

I looked at your links but they don't discuss contemplation and communication between predator and prey which permantly change the behavior of both. Also, I found this interesting in one of the articles.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I still don't see your point. Therefore, since animals cannot communicate in human language, it takes us as human beings to be able to observe various forms of animal suffering and not wait for a dog or a chicken to tell us.

Here are the definitions of contemplation.