same sex marriage and paul's letter to romans

[waitasec]

Paul would never write "baseless scriptures" .

that's funny....good one

We are to honor and respect authority and submit to every ordinance of man. Only when obedience to human rules and regulations violate the laws of God should we decline to obey, as evidenced throughout scripture. But even then, we must respectfully submit to the law's penalty (1 Pet 2:13).

consider luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
how do interpret that in light of the same sex marriage issue?

Daniel, his three friends, Peter and John did not resist the authorities. They all submitted to the penalty imposed by their actions. This is inline with Paul's admonition in Rom 13:1-2.

keep reading...

3 Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good.

either paul was out of line for writing this or peter and john were "rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves..." and paul wasn't out of line

which one is it? you can't have it both ways.

 

[james2ko]

consider luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. how do interpret that in light of the same sex marriage issue?

Homosexuals are our neighbor just as much as someone who is a sabbath breaker, adulterer, liar, thief, etc...We are to treat them with as much love, respect, and decency as we would any other human being. This by no means indicates we, as Christians, should condone their sinful behavior.

3 Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. either paul was out of line for writing this or peter and john were "rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves..." and paul wasn't out of line which one is it? you can't have it both ways.

Sure you can. I provided several examples in my last post. Paul in essence tells us we should obey and not resist the authorities God has put in place. Peter and John provide additional instruction by demonstrating the exception---except when those laws are contrary to God's law. Peter and John also reinforce Paul's point of being subject to the authorities by not resisting arrest or punishment in the event their laws are broken. Complimentary--never contradictory..

 

[waitasec]

Homosexuals are our neighbor just as much as someone who is a sabbath breaker, adulterer, liar, thief, etc...We are to treat them with as much love, respect, and decency as we would any other human being. This by no means indicates we, as Christians, should condone their sinful behavior.

but by voting against their right to choose is not giving them what they are asking for... equality...you are not condoning their right to marry you are preventing their right to marry...it's not the same thing.

Sure you can. I provided several examples in my last post. Paul in essence tells us we should obey and not resist the authorities God has put in place. Peter and John provide additional instruction by demonstrating the exception---except when those laws are contrary to God's law. Peter and John also reinforce Paul's point of being subject to the authorities by not resisting arrest or punishment in the event their laws are broken. Complimentary--never contradictory..

whom ever is in a place of authority was established by god...that is what paul said, and judging by what you are saying paul was not telling the truth

either god established obama or not...which is it?

 

[Me Myself]

Homosexuals are our neighbor just as much as someone who is a sabbath breaker, adulterer, liar, thief, etc...We are to treat them with as much love, respect, and decency as we would any other human being. This by no means indicates we, as Christians, should condone their sinful behavior.



Sure you can. I provided several examples in my last post. Paul in essence tells us we should obey and not resist the authorities God has put in place. Peter and John provide additional instruction by demonstrating the exception---except when those laws are contrary to God's law. Peter and John also reinforce Paul's point of being subject to the authorities by not resisting arrest or punishment in the event their laws are broken. Complimentary--never contradictory..

But your secular gobernment supports ALL religions INCLUDING non christian ones with their tax free stuff, or do they not?

That´s abvoiusly against the scriptures. People got beheaded for worshipping an idol for least than a day.

why aren´t you overthrowing your leader and demanding a theocracy yet?

 

[TheKnight]

but he is our president who was "ordained" by god simply for the fact that he is president...and if the president says same sex couples should have the same rights then why challenge it?

1. Obama said it's something States should decide.
2. Even if he did want it to be the way of the land, our Constitution does not allow him to be the sole determinant of the law.
3. Because of the structure of our system, you cannot say that Christians voting a certain way is resistance to authority. The authority itself (in this case the ultimate authority being the Constitution) allows for people to voice their opinions through voting.

Simply put, Obama is not a single declarative leader and decider of policy. A Christian's "resistance" through participation in the political process which all citizens are entitled to participate in hardly counts as the "resistance to authority" that Paul discusses.

If for no other reason than the fact that Obama is not an authority on the matter.

 

[james2ko]

But your secular gobernment supports ALL religions INCLUDING non christian ones with their tax free stuff, or do they not?

That´s abvoiusly against the scriptures. People got beheaded for worshipping an idol for least than a day.

Daniel was taken captive to a foreign land where a religion, contrary to his, was practiced. He rejected their religion and continued to practice his own. He was actually rewarded by being made a top ranking government official.

why aren´t you overthrowing your leader and demanding a theocracy yet?

That would be against the scriptures.

 

[waitasec]

1. Obama said it's something States should decide.
2. Even if he did want it to be the way of the land, our Constitution does not allow him to be the sole determinant of the law.
3. Because of the structure of our system, you cannot say that Christians voting a certain way is resistance to authority. The authority itself (in this case the ultimate authority being the Constitution) allows for people to voice their opinions through voting.

Simply put, Obama is not a single declarative leader and decider of policy. A Christian's "resistance" through participation in the political process which all citizens are entitled to participate in hardly counts as the "resistance to authority" that Paul discusses.

If for no other reason than the fact that Obama is not an authority on the matter.

that is besides the point i'm making in the OP.

i'm only talking about those who are defiant towards obama's stance on gay marriage.

 

[waitasec]

Daniel was taken captive to a foreign land where a religion, contrary to his, was practiced. He rejected their religion and continued to practice his own. He was actually rewarded by being made a top ranking government official.

so, are you comparing obama to daniel
you're not a birther are you?

That would be against the scriptures.

no not really.
numbers 33:50-52

 

[james2ko]

but by voting against their right to choose is not giving them what they are asking for... equality...you are not condoning their right to marry you are preventing their right to marry...it's not the same thing.

I do not "officially" vote for or against anything or anyone. That solves your dilemma.

whom ever is in a place of authority was established by god...that is what paul said, and judging by what you are saying paul was not telling the truth. either god established obama or not...which is it?

He also established King Nebuchadnezzar and King Darius. As we can see, God did not condemn Daniel or his friends for disobeying their King's commands which were against God's law. Human beings God places in authority sometimes serve themselves but the office or position should be respected and obeyed even if his or her actions are evil--unless obedience to their law results in the breaking of God's law. For instance, if Congress passed a law commanding citizens to accept homosexuality and punish those who reject it, I would choose against it and suffer whatever penalty they chose to implement.

 

[waitasec]

I do not "officially" vote for or against anything or anyone. That solves your dilemma.

not really. have you ever been involved in a conversation with someone of your faith about this issue who does vote and who happens to agree with you?

He also established King Nebuchadnezzar and King Darius. As we can see, God did not condemn Daniel or his friends for disobeying their King's commands which were against God's law. Human beings God places in authority sometimes serve themselves but the office or position should be respected and obeyed even if his or her actions are evil--unless obedience to their law results in the breaking of God's law. For instance, if Congress passed a law commanding citizens to accept homosexuality and punish those who reject it, I would choose against it and suffer whatever penalty they chose to implement.

then paul was full of bulloney

 

[james2ko]

so, are you comparing obama to daniel
you're not a birther are you?

I love it when you get fallacious.

no not really.numbers 33:50-52

That was God doing the overthrowing. He asked why am "I" not overthrowing the government.

 

[waitasec]

I love it when you get fallacious.



That was God doing the overthrowing. He asked why am "I" not overthrowing the government.

you could be in moses' shoes....

 

[james2ko]

not really. have you ever been involved in a conversation with someone of your faith about this issue who does vote and who happens to agree with you?

Not really..

then paul was full of bulloney

That's impossible...Paul was kosher

 

[james2ko]

you could be in moses' shoes....

I'm not worthy :no:

 

[waitasec]

Not really..

yes or no... there is no "not really", have you?

 

[waitasec]

I'm not worthy :no:

i think you are more worthy, since moses never existed.

 

[obi one]

this thread is only for those who believe the bible is just as relevant today as it was then, that it's infallible, and who are defiant towards obama's stance on gay marriage.

when paul wrote the letter to romans, nero was in charge... a pretty shady character in history...yet he says this in the 13th chapter

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.


so isn't there a disconnect here? why are you rebelling against an authority god established? by challenging obama's position, you are in essence challenging god.


what say you?

You put the cart before the horse. Legislatures make laws, the executive branches are simply supposed to enforce laws. The current laws, except in several liberal states, do not support Obama's position. Possibly you should campaign for states rights, and then move to one of the states which agree with your position.

As for Paul, he is simply a self proclaimed prophet and apostle. Your current canon was initialized by Athanasius in 367 A.D., a Roman bishop, who is more a politician than a man of God. Paul's standing comes by way of him being the pillar of the Roman church established by the 7th head of the beast (Rev 17:9). That beast is the same beast with two horns like a lamb in Rev 13:11, who spoke with the authority of the dragon, and deceived those "who dwell on the earth" (Rev 13:14). Constantine was the 7th head of the beast who convened the Council of Nicene, which initially established the doctrines of the Roman church. That church is described in Rev 17:16, as the harlot who would eventually be consumed by the horns of the beast. She is but a daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5). The bible is not infallible. If you read what Yeshua said in Mt 13:38-39, the tares seeds are mixed with the good seed.

Obama is pretty much a fraud. He claims to be transparent, but he is only transparent in the Orwellian sense, in that when he calls something black, you can pretty well determine it is probably white. Not that the country doesn't deserve the president it gets, but not everyone voted for the guy.

 

[james2ko]

yes or no... there is no "not really", have you?

I always thought not really is another way of saying, I really haven't.

 

[waitasec]

You put the cart before the horse. Legislatures make laws,.

i'm not talking bout laws...

why are you rebelling against an authority god established? by challenging obama's position, are you not, in essence, challenging god?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

i'm not talking bout laws...

why are you rebelling against an authority god established? by challenging obama's position, are you not, in essence, challenging god?

I'm not sure how it challenges Obama to go against same-sex marriage. While he's come out in favour of it personally, he has left room for people to take other positions.

Also, if we're assuming that Obama's authority was instituted by God, then presumably, the fact that a President's opinion given in an interview carries no legal weight at all was also God's doing.