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salvation

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by trishtrish10, Aug 7, 2004.

  1. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    as u notice most denominations differ on being saved. according to the Bible, one can be saved thru baptism, faith and works, believing in the name of Jesus, etc. evidently there are a lot of different ways to be saved. i would venture to say there are as many different ways to be saved as there are individuals because each one must follow God's will for them and only them.
     
  2. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    But God's will is not subjective. We must conform to His will, and it is not tailored for everyone. There is one path that every human being must follow: Faith, Repentence, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Those are the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel. After that you must constantly strive to align your life with the will of God revealed to you through scripture study, prayer, righteous living and church attendance. Every person that has walked this earth, that now walks it, and that will walk it must fulfill each and every one of those requirements. You will say that's impossible. I invite you to do so, so that I may show you, using the Bible, how it is not impossible, but absoutely necessary.
     
  3. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    in general God's will is the same for everyone, but different for each individual.
     
  4. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Yeshua/salvation is the gift of God for faith in the Creator God, Y-H-V-H.
    Being saved is the entry level of the Kingdom. There's more levels.
     
  5. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    i believe as my church does that salvation includes good hindus, buddhists, atheists, etc. Goodness is God as well as love. if u have love in your heart, u are possessed by God, he is in u no matter what religion or non-religion u practice. God would not condemn loving people no matter what their faith.
     
  6. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Hebrew; The righteous of all nations will share in the world to come.
    The Righteous Elect will be in the First/Better Ressurection.
     
  7. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hiya dan,

    Please explain a few things for me:

    Faith in what exactly?

    Repentence of what kind?

    Can one be saved without a Baptism by immersion?

    When/how does one get the "Gift of the Holy Ghost"?

    Thanks,
    Scott
     
  8. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer of the world.

    Repentence is an ongoing process that many don't understand. It can be explained in five general steps. Repentence is: 1 - Recognition of an act as a sin, 2 - Remorse for committing that sin, 3 - Restitution for the consequences of that sin, 4 - Asking for forgiveness from God and those affected by the sin, 5 - Turning away from that sin forever.

    It seems like it's a difficult process, and it is, but as we seek to fulfill it the spirit of the Lord is poured into our hearts and our desires are changed. We lose the desire to commit that sin and we are cleansed spiritually. It's an incredibly liberating experience.

    No.

    Usually it is administered shortly after baptism by the laying on of hands of those in authority, but certain situations in the past have required other forms of administration. On the days the Jews and then the Gentiles received the Gift of the Holy Ghost for the very first time (respectively) it was accompanied by cloven tongues of fire and great gusts of wind. There was one other time when it preceded baptism, but those involved were commanded to immediately be baptized. Since then the laying on of hands by those possessing the Melchizedek Priesthood has been the proscribed manner.
     
  9. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    i agree with trishtrish10 in saying that anyone who believes in God can attain salvation. but as a believer in God, i understand that God comes in several forms. he came as buddha, krishna, jesus and many many others. God appears in nature, the sunrise, the sun set, the beautiful stars, the moon. If you believe in a great connection of goodness in our souls and hearts, that brings us to search for a greater truth, this path leads to knowlegde, the enlightenment, pure love and bliss.
     
  10. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    God is Love. most everyone has love in their hearts no matter their religion or non-religion. God would not condemn himself or anyone else who loves.
     
  11. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    GOD IS LOVE, GOD would not comdemn HIMSELF, because GOD is perfect. We are not perfect. Do you know everything GOD wants from you? Do you do everything GOD wants you to do? Do you do everything GOD wants you to do?
    Do you even know what GOD wants others to do?
    If the answer to any of the above is NO, then you are falling short of the mark.

    Matthew 19:21-22 Jesus said unto hom, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give it to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great posessions.
     
  12. Ardhanariswar

    Ardhanariswar I'm back!

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    if God is love why do you condemn gay marriage? its two souls in love.

    sorry for being off topic.

    anyone can attain salvation. they dont have to be christian. read my post in the thread "Reincarnation"
     
  13. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Don't let anybody tell you that you must "accept it by faith." That is contrary to the Word. The God of the Bible is a God of law and order, cause and effect. Believing is not just a mental process; it is complete persuasion. Believing is being convinced of God's Word beyond a shadow of doubt. That is truly believing. That is Abraham's believing and it is imputed to us for righteousness. If we believe on God that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead. Jesus was delivered to death for our offences, and was raised again when our justification was accomplished. And that was after spending three days and three nights in the grave. And when we confess Jesus as Lord, we are saved. By that act of believing, God's grace makes us whole. Now at this moment of fully persuasion, belief, one can recieve the gift of holy spirit simply by asking Father God Almighty for his seed of spirit, in his son's name Jesus Christ, and then taking a deep draw of breath. Simple. No baptism with water, no circumcision, etc..
     
  14. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    So, in your view, all non-Christians go to hell?
     
  15. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    in my faith there is nothing to be 'saved' from.
    you live your life as best you can and then you move on.

    wa:do
     
  16. Mercellus

    Mercellus Member

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    Let me join voices with Dan.

    No, not all non-Christians will go to hell. Not all Christians will go to heaven. We both know that there are many Christians who profess the name of the Lord, but do not live their lives in accordance with His teachings.

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

    But lets talk about non-Christians for a while, or even those who never learn of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Would God be just in condemning them to hell just because they never got the opportunity to hear the Gospel here in this life? I feel that He would not be just in doing that, for He loves all His children.

    Let's take a look at two or three scriptures in The Bible that talk about this situation. Let's begin with the death of the Saviour. After Christ died on the cross, his apostles, and others who were with them, took the body of Christ and laid it in a sepulchre. We know that Christ's spirit returned to the presence of the Father. But Christ did not just sit around waiting for three days 'til His resurrection. He was actively engaged in teaching the spirits of those who lived and already died prior to Christ's death that had not received the Gospel.

    "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit;

    "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" - 1 Peter 3:18-19

    So, God obviously wants those who haven't heard the Gospel to hear it. Why?

    "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." - 1 Peter 4:6

    Ok, so the Gospel is preached unto the dead. But Christ says that we must believe and be baptized in His name in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But how can somebody that is dead be baptized. There is a priesthood ordinance of baptisms for the dead, wherein we that are living are baptized for those who are dead that have not yet been baptized. Some may say that this is rediculous. How can somebody be baptized for someone else? It is a vicarious work. The Saviour's atoning sacrifice was a vicarious work. This ordinance was had in the Church after Christ's resurrection.

    In speaking to the Corinthians about the resurrection, the apostle Paul asks them a question:

    "Else what shall they [members of the Church] do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" - 1 Corinthians 15:29

    If there were no resurrection, and basically no life after this, then why did the Saints perfom proxy baptism for those who had already gone before, who had not yet been baptized? That is what Paul is asking the Corinthians.

    God is just and loving. He has prepared a way for all to return to Him. We, however, can chose not to accept or follow Him and be with Him. This is true also for those who are dead. We do not know if they have accepted the Gospel in the spirit world after their death; so we do the work for them and they may accept it if they chose to. That is still their choice. They may accept or decline just as we can here on earth.
     
  17. SPLogan

    SPLogan Member

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    It seems odd that when the question of salvation comes up the obvious follow-up question, "from what?," takes so long to arise. How would you react if someone came to you and exclaimed "Don't worry, I can save your life!"? Personally, I'd probably blow off a person who came to me and said that. On the other hand, I might react differently if I were terminally ill or being shot at and saw that my death is near.

    Apparently salvation is meaningless to those who lack a sinse of despair.

    So far, close to 100% of the world's population faces, or has faced, death. Modern medicine has done little to change that statistic. If there is even a 1% chance that the Bible's teaching about God's judgment and eternal punishment of sinners is true, then it would be worth reading the rest of that Holy Document to see what can be done about our doomed state. After all there aren't many contemporary figures who can speak from experience as to what it was like to "move on."

    That's why death is scary. The Bible offers AMAZING hope in the salvific work of Christ but is also scary because it is dogmatic with mandates, and once you embrace a portion of it as truth, you'll find it difficult to reject any of the rest of it. It drives you to an all-or-nothing leap of faith once you head down that path, and it gets into your personal business and messes around with your stuff. There's no one I'd rather have messing with my stuff and beliefs than the perfectly loving God who made me and died to save me from His perfect justice. Believe that in God's Holy eyes you are a wretched sinner deserving His right judgment and that Jesus Christ is your only hope of being right with God and you'll be free, SAVED.

    I suppose I could be wrong about this stuff. (theoretically) It is my earnest opinion.
     
  18. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Are you quite sure you would like to do that? I think you might want to find out what dan thinks about YOUR faith before you do so.

    Just a thought.

    Scott
     
  19. trishtrish10

    trishtrish10 Active Member

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    there are three types of baptism mentioned in the Bible: water, fire, and desire. many non-christians are baptised by desire, unknownst to them.
     
  20. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    SPLogan

    death isn't scary for all people... some simply view it as a nessisary part of life and moving on. Its only scary if you believe in hell.... and I for one don't.

    As someone who had looked death in the face I can say I do not feel doomed in any way. When I die it will be my time to die.

    wa:do
     
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