Sally Kern-homosexuality worse than terrorism

[Smoke]

I got an email from someone just two days ago ranting that Obama was a Muslim and that he said that he would take his oath on the Qu'ran. I thought how misinformed people are and it made me sad. (not that I would actually mind if Obama was a Muslim).

I always hit "reply all" and respond. Consequently, all my niece's Republican friends think I hate Amurca, and she doesn't send me that crap anymore. (They all called her to complain.) People who do still send me crap like that tend to blind copy everybody so I don't get to respond to everybody they know.

 

[Reverend Rick]

R Rick I applaud your post on your position on homosexuality but I want to ask, and I will take whatever way you answer it on face value, without further inquiry, but how comfortable would you be, as a religious leader, giving a sermon on accepting homosexuality in today's society on any given Sunday? Could you articulate your thoughts in this thread in a sermon?

Yes, I believe I could. As long as folks realize that having faith in a religion does not mean we as Christians can pick and choose what we like about a certain religion and what we don't like. It is a package deal. I choose to follow Christianity and take the bitter with the sweet.

There are some things that Christians likes better than others within the religion, but we choose to follow completely the word of God as much as is possible.

A good example would be, to love your neighbor as you love yourself. You may live next to a person who is just awful, but Christ commands us to love him just the same. A Christian cannot decide that they don't like that particular rule and ignore it by just practicing the more palatable commandments.

Here is the deal, we all fall short of the grace of God. There is not one perfect person among us. Does that mean we are all going to hell? Let me ask you this? Do you have to be a member of the church to see Christ? Does joining a church insure your salvation?

As surely as I am standing before you, a long time member of the church is not going to see heaven while a convicted rapist and murderer can call upon the Lord as he walks down death row to be killed will be saved. It is possible, not only that probable.

We don't get brownie points for going to church and we don't burn in hell for drinking a beer and mowing the lawn on Sunday! One is better than the other but that is not how salvation works.

The most devout Christian among us that has given of themselves to others unselfishly all their lives has done great deeds. Before Christ, they are nothing but filthy rags before him.

Deeds do not get us into heaven, brothers and sisters in Christ. We will be judged by our deeds but one thing and one thing only will get you through those pearly gates and that is if your name is written in the Lamb's book of life.

We will be judged by our deeds indeed! All men are sinners! Not one of us has led a pure life! We have all sinned! It does not matter what you have done. You may have lusted in your heart without ever acting on it. Does not matter, you sinned! No perfect people and no free pass to heaven for anyone!

You must get your name in the Lamb's book of life! How do you do this? First off you acknowledge that you are a sinner. Quit trying to find a passage in the Bible that says you are not a sinner and MOST OF ALL, quit trying to find a passage of judgment against your neighbor!

That is the stupidest thing a Christian can do. What happens when we judge one another? The same judgment we make of others, befalls us as well. It is not our job to judge others, my friends! JUDGEMENT IS MINE SAID THE LORD!

If you see a homosexual and judge them, guess what? You just passed the same judgment upon yourself. Are you happy now?

If you overeat or do not exercise are you treating your body as a temple?

If you have been true to your wife all your life, but lusted in your heart, you might as well just have taken them all to bed because there is no difference in the Lord's eyes.


A MURDERER CAN GO TO HEAVEN! WHAT COULD BE WORSE THAN THAT?

I will tell you what is worse, judge them and take revenge on them.

Do you believe you are equal to God almighty? Revenge is mine said the Lord!

What does the Lord want us to do with those that offend us? We kill them with kindness. For surly those who trespass against us will receive the wrath of the Lord and the better we treat them the worst it will be when the Lord decides to punish them.

So how does that fair for the Homophobes? You live next to a homosexual, what does the Lord command of you?

TO LOVE THEM WITH ALL YOUR HEART!

TO NOT JUDGE THEM!

WELCOME THEM INTO YOUR HOME AND YOUR CHURCH.

PRAY FOR THEM AND ENJOY FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM AND LET THE HOLY GHOST DO HIS JOB!

Don't sweat the small things in life brothers and sisters. Don't waste your time hating folks and passing judgment on people because they are different than yourself.

Invite them into your church and BE A CHRISTIAN FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, NOT WITH WORDS BUT WITH ACTIONS!

 

[Reverend Rick]

To the top. Any comments?

 

[Somkid]

Hitler blamed the Jews she blames the gays who says history doesn't repeat I bet she would send all the the homosexuals to the gas chamber if she had her way fascist ugly old hag. I like the part about "nations that embrace homosexuality only last a couple of decades". Does she mean the European counties? They are older the the USA, how about Asian countries? Thailand (Siam) is over 6,000 years old as far as anyone knows and homosexuals have always been welcome, it is currently the year 2551 here.

 

[Smoke]

Gay Rights Watch: Ellen Responds To OK Rep. Sally Kern's Anti-Gay Tirade

 

[robtex]

abc forum discussion on the video :

ABC News: Pol Rants Being Gay Worse Than Terrorism

 

[DallasApple]

Yes, I believe I could. As long as folks realize that having faith in a religion does not mean we as Christians can pick and choose what we like about a certain religion and what we don't like. It is a package deal. I choose to follow Christianity and take the bitter with the sweet.

There are some things that Christians likes better than others within the religion, but we choose to follow completely the word of God as much as is possible.

A good example would be, to love your neighbor as you love yourself. You may live next to a person who is just awful, but Christ commands us to love him just the same. A Christian cannot decide that they don't like that particular rule and ignore it by just practicing the more palatable commandments.

Here is the deal, we all fall short of the grace of God. There is not one perfect person among us. Does that mean we are all going to hell? Let me ask you this? Do you have to be a member of the church to see Christ? Does joining a church insure your salvation?

As surely as I am standing before you, a long time member of the church is not going to see heaven while a convicted rapist and murderer can call upon the Lord as he walks down death row to be killed will be saved. It is possible, not only that probable.

We don't get brownie points for going to church and we don't burn in hell for drinking a beer and mowing the lawn on Sunday! One is better than the other but that is not how salvation works.

The most devout Christian among us that has given of themselves to others unselfishly all their lives has done great deeds. Before Christ, they are nothing but filthy rags before him.

Deeds do not get us into heaven, brothers and sisters in Christ. We will be judged by our deeds but one thing and one thing only will get you through those pearly gates and that is if your name is written in the Lamb's book of life.

We will be judged by our deeds indeed! All men are sinners! Not one of us has led a pure life! We have all sinned! It does not matter what you have done. You may have lusted in your heart without ever acting on it. Does not matter, you sinned! No perfect people and no free pass to heaven for anyone!

You must get your name in the Lamb's book of life! How do you do this? First off you acknowledge that you are a sinner. Quit trying to find a passage in the Bible that says you are not a sinner and MOST OF ALL, quit trying to find a passage of judgment against your neighbor!

That is the stupidest thing a Christian can do. What happens when we judge one another? The same judgment we make of others, befalls us as well. It is not our job to judge others, my friends! JUDGEMENT IS MINE SAID THE LORD!

If you see a homosexual and judge them, guess what? You just passed the same judgment upon yourself. Are you happy now?

If you overeat or do not exercise are you treating your body as a temple?

If you have been true to your wife all your life, but lusted in your heart, you might as well just have taken them all to bed because there is no difference in the Lord's eyes.


A MURDERER CAN GO TO HEAVEN! WHAT COULD BE WORSE THAN THAT?

I will tell you what is worse, judge them and take revenge on them.

Do you believe you are equal to God almighty? Revenge is mine said the Lord!

What does the Lord want us to do with those that offend us? We kill them with kindness. For surly those who trespass against us will receive the wrath of the Lord and the better we treat them the worst it will be when the Lord decides to punish them.

So how does that fair for the Homophobes? You live next to a homosexual, what does the Lord command of you?

TO LOVE THEM WITH ALL YOUR HEART!

TO NOT JUDGE THEM!

WELCOME THEM INTO YOUR HOME AND YOUR CHURCH.

PRAY FOR THEM AND ENJOY FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM AND LET THE HOLY GHOST DO HIS JOB!

Don't sweat the small things in life brothers and sisters. Don't waste your time hating folks and passing judgment on people because they are different than yourself.

Invite them into your church and BE A CHRISTIAN FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, NOT WITH WORDS BUT WITH ACTIONS!

You said it better than me..I agree with everything you said..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Riverwolf]

Homosexuality is not the bane of society. Using "family values" as the argument is silly in my opinion, though I know where they're coming from. I do know that America's days as the world power are numbered, and I know that homosexuals will be blamed for this apparent disaster that in my eyes is necessary. Nonetheless, I think that homosexuals should pursue their love and affection to the fullest, regardless how much heat they may take. Homosexuality is only bashed by people who don't understand anybody except themselves and believe wholeheartedly that every human is the same and should think the same and that the rules for this sameness is outlined in the Bible, and anyone not in this category is Evil. Narcissists, if you will, not Christians.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but these are my views, and I don't intend to change them anytime soon.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, I believe I could. As long as folks realize that having faith in a religion does not mean we as Christians can pick and choose what we like about a certain religion and what we don't like. It is a package deal. I choose to follow Christianity and take the bitter with the sweet.

There are some things that Christians likes better than others within the religion, but we choose to follow completely the word of God as much as is possible.

A good example would be, to love your neighbor as you love yourself. You may live next to a person who is just awful, but Christ commands us to love him just the same. A Christian cannot decide that they don't like that particular rule and ignore it by just practicing the more palatable commandments.

Here is the deal, we all fall short of the grace of God. There is not one perfect person among us. Does that mean we are all going to hell? Let me ask you this? Do you have to be a member of the church to see Christ? Does joining a church insure your salvation?

As surely as I am standing before you, a long time member of the church is not going to see heaven while a convicted rapist and murderer can call upon the Lord as he walks down death row to be killed will be saved. It is possible, not only that probable.

We don't get brownie points for going to church and we don't burn in hell for drinking a beer and mowing the lawn on Sunday! One is better than the other but that is not how salvation works.

The most devout Christian among us that has given of themselves to others unselfishly all their lives has done great deeds. Before Christ, they are nothing but filthy rags before him.

Deeds do not get us into heaven, brothers and sisters in Christ. We will be judged by our deeds but one thing and one thing only will get you through those pearly gates and that is if your name is written in the Lamb's book of life.

We will be judged by our deeds indeed! All men are sinners! Not one of us has led a pure life! We have all sinned! It does not matter what you have done. You may have lusted in your heart without ever acting on it. Does not matter, you sinned! No perfect people and no free pass to heaven for anyone!

You must get your name in the Lamb's book of life! How do you do this? First off you acknowledge that you are a sinner. Quit trying to find a passage in the Bible that says you are not a sinner and MOST OF ALL, quit trying to find a passage of judgment against your neighbor!

That is the stupidest thing a Christian can do. What happens when we judge one another? The same judgment we make of others, befalls us as well. It is not our job to judge others, my friends! JUDGEMENT IS MINE SAID THE LORD!

If you see a homosexual and judge them, guess what? You just passed the same judgment upon yourself. Are you happy now?

If you overeat or do not exercise are you treating your body as a temple?

If you have been true to your wife all your life, but lusted in your heart, you might as well just have taken them all to bed because there is no difference in the Lord's eyes.


A MURDERER CAN GO TO HEAVEN! WHAT COULD BE WORSE THAN THAT?

I will tell you what is worse, judge them and take revenge on them.

Do you believe you are equal to God almighty? Revenge is mine said the Lord!

What does the Lord want us to do with those that offend us? We kill them with kindness. For surly those who trespass against us will receive the wrath of the Lord and the better we treat them the worst it will be when the Lord decides to punish them.

So how does that fair for the Homophobes? You live next to a homosexual, what does the Lord command of you?

TO LOVE THEM WITH ALL YOUR HEART!

TO NOT JUDGE THEM!

WELCOME THEM INTO YOUR HOME AND YOUR CHURCH.

PRAY FOR THEM AND ENJOY FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM AND LET THE HOLY GHOST DO HIS JOB!

Don't sweat the small things in life brothers and sisters. Don't waste your time hating folks and passing judgment on people because they are different than yourself.

Invite them into your church and BE A CHRISTIAN FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, NOT WITH WORDS BUT WITH ACTIONS!

Finally, a true Christian. I know there are many, many others like you, but I have never met any of them. (I'm an indoor person, and don't get out much. I'm quite the bubble boy. Er, man. lol) On Yahoo! Answers, I've met some who come close, but most of them just bash me for holding my beliefs. Politely bashing, but bashing nonetheless.

And this doctrine is the doctrine I try to follow, and let me tell you, it's hard. It's very hard to find love for murderers, rapists, inhuman serial killers, and the like. But I try to find it in my heart to forgive them, to purge myself of all Hate. Have I done this? Absolutely not. Just now, I referred to serial killers as inhuman. This word has a negative connotation. As it is, I haven't really forgiven such people yet. But I have every intention of doing so.

But to me, the true test of love comes when a loved one is killed. Think of Spider-Man 3. MINOR SPOILER ALERT!!! DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT!!!

In the movie, Peter Parker learns that the man who killed his Uncle Ben is still alive and on the run. He goes through the beginning of the movie with hatred in his heart, and as a result becomes a real jerk, so much so that it takes slapping Mary-Jane, the love of his life. In the end, he's learned what hatred can do to a person, and confronts the man who killed Uncle Ben face-to-face. After a small speech and a second's hesitation, he finds it in his heart to forgive him.
END SPOILER

I have not been tested like this yet, and should a dear one to me be taken from me, I honestly don't know how I'd react. Would I find it in my heart to forgive the killer? Probably not right away. At first, I guarantee that all I could think about is revenge. I would hope that I could eventually find it in my heart to forgive, but it definitely would be hard. Do I do this to be allowed entry into Heaven? No. That's not part of my beliefs. I do it to pursue the purging of all Hate from my heart. Will I do it before I die? Very unlikely. But I pursue it nonetheless. That's what's important. Honest pursuing of such goals. And I mean honest pursuing, which doesn't mean you do it to show others you do it, but you do it only for yourself. You don't just say you do it, but you really DO it.

 

[robtex]

Just out of curiosity, did any of the Christians on here email Sally or the Southern Baptist Convention to articulate their position on her speech?

 

[TashaN]

I think her position on homosexuality is based on the story of sodom in the bible. No?

 

[Smoke]

I think her position on homosexuality is based on the story of sodom in the bible. No?

It couldn't possibly be, although she may well be dishonest enough to say that it is, or stupid enough to believe that the story of Sodom actually is about homosexuality.

 

[Father Heathen]

It couldn't possibly be, although she may well be dishonest enough to say that it is, or stupid enough to believe that the story of Sodom actually is about homosexuality.

What bothers me about that fable is that Lot willingly tried to surrender his own daughters to be raped, and he was the one God wanted to save? That's infinitely worse than homosexuality.

 

[Smoke]

What bothers me about that fable is that Lot willingly tried to surrender his own daughters to be raped, and he was the one God wanted to save? That's infinitely worse than homosexuality.

And later got both of them pregnant while he was drunk. And he was the righteous one. I think righteous just meant devoted to the right god.

 

[heavyarms553]

There are many denominations of christianity, each with their own opinions on the appropriateness of homosexuality. But it would not be a fallacy to say that quite a fair share of christians believe that homosexuality is amoral and should be condemned. This belief may be institutional or individual.

(EDIT: I cant post links yet as I only have a couple posts. Just search wikipedia for the relevant pages.)

Ill refer you to this wikipedia page:

List of Christian denominational positions on homosexuality

And more pertinant to Sally Kern is the Baptist views on homosexuality:

Homosexuality and Baptist churches
The Southern Baptist Convention, of which I believe our dear friend Sally is a member, thinks, as a whole, that homosexuality is a "manifestation of a depraved nature", "a perversion of divine standards and as a violation of nature and natural affections" and "an abomination in the eyes of God."

To say that the majority of christians can reconcile their faith with homosexuality is blatantly ignoring the elephant in the room. That being said, I have no doubt that there is a minority of monotheists who do accept homosexuality, but that their beliefs do not reflect their religion as a whole. Ill go on to suggest that they are not true followers of their religion, and they should seek a denomination that better fits their outlook on god in relation to difficult modern day dilemmas.

Also, that woman is a bigot and deserves to be removed from office without delay.

 

[Father Heathen]

And later got both of them pregnant while he was drunk. And he was the righteous one. I think righteous just meant devoted to the right god.

Right. Righteousness in the religious sense rarely has anything to do with honor, honestly, fairness and integrity.

 

[MoonWater]

There are many denominations of christianity, each with their own opinions on the appropriateness of homosexuality. But it would not be a fallacy to say that quite a fair share of christians believe that homosexuality is amoral and should be condemned. This belief may be institutional or individual.

(EDIT: I cant post links yet as I only have a couple posts. Just search wikipedia for the relevant pages.)

Ill refer you to this wikipedia page:

List of Christian denominational positions on homosexuality

And more pertinant to Sally Kern is the Baptist views on homosexuality:

Homosexuality and Baptist churches
The Southern Baptist Convention, of which I believe our dear friend Sally is a member, thinks, as a whole, that homosexuality is a "manifestation of a depraved nature", "a perversion of divine standards and as a violation of nature and natural affections" and "an abomination in the eyes of God."

To say that the majority of christians can reconcile their faith with homosexuality is blatantly ignoring the elephant in the room. That being said, I have no doubt that there is a minority of monotheists who do accept homosexuality, but that their beliefs do not reflect their religion as a whole. Ill go on to suggest that they are not true followers of their religion, and they should seek a denomination that better fits their outlook on god in relation to difficult modern day dilemmas.

Also, that woman is a bigot and deserves to be removed from office without delay.

Who are you to judge who is a true follower of any religion and who isn't? Especially when you aren't even a part of said religion. Besides, If you truly study the passages that so many use to condemn homosexuality you find that they really aren't about homosexuality at all. Those that do mention homosexuality in the English version do so only due to a mistranslation or due to choosing one particular translation of a word that has many translations. You don't have to be a conservative literalistic bible-thumper in order to be "a true follower" of Christianity. Besides Christ (in the bible) taught acceptance and compassion, not hatred and condemnation. And he made apostles and followers of outcasts while decrying the fakers and "extremists" of his day.

 

[heavyarms553]

You misunderstand me, and your mistake is evident in this sentence:

You don't have to be a conservative literalistic bible-thumper in order to be "a true follower" of Christianity.

Note that I am describing specific denominations of christianity, not christianity as a whole. Let me use my own life as an example.

I was born a roman catholic, I was baptised as a roman catholic, I was confirmed as a roman catholic. I attended sunday school and I was very devout for much of my childhood. I have a fair degree of understanding of the catholic faith. I did not, however, agree with the tenet of transubstantiation. That is the belief that the host, which is eaten during communion, LITERALLY turns into the body of christ when you die and ascend to heaven. As a result of this transformation, you become as christ and are united for all eternity.

I spoke with my priest about my thoughts, and he told me that the catholic church supported transubstantiation and that it was infallible. Ergo, I was wrong and I should change what I think. As a result, I became an Anglican. They still celebrate the holy eucharist, but do not believe that transubstantiation is a literal transformation from bread to flesh. This transition was eased, and possibly prompted, by the fact that my father was Anglican, but my mother was Catholic.

My "descent" from a protestant church to atheism is unrelated to this debate.

My opinions about god and the church did not reflect those of my chosen denomination, which was roman catholocism at the time. As a result, I moved to a different church which better suited my own beliefs.

Christians are always welcome to adhere to their own interpretation of god. However, I feel it is duplicitous to do so and attend a denominational church which does not share your opinions. It is lying to yourself, and to the church which you attend.

There are many denominations of christianity out there. Surely there is one which suits any set of beliefs that a christian may have.

This applies to the concieved morality of homosexuality as well. Some churches condone it, while others condemn it. Choose a church which agrees with what you think, not the other way around.

I apologize If I misrepresented myself.

As for Christianity as a whole accepting homosexuality, I will not comment. I have already stated that Christianity is a large and fractious entity which hold numerous different opinions. I am personally only intimately familiar with Catholicism. However on that subject I can, without a shadow of a doubt, say that Catholicism condemns homosexuality. Here it is, strait from the Jerusalem Bible, which is the universally accepted Catholic bible:

Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

I fail to see how that is debatable.

 

[MoonWater]

You misunderstand me, and your mistake is evident in this sentence:



Note that I am describing specific denominations of christianity, not christianity as a whole. Let me use my own life as an example.

I was born a roman catholic, I was baptised as a roman catholic, I was confirmed as a roman catholic. I attended sunday school and I was very devout for much of my childhood. I have a fair degree of understanding of the catholic faith. I did not, however, agree with the tenet of transubstantiation. That is the belief that the host, which is eaten during communion, LITERALLY turns into the body of christ when you die and ascend to heaven. As a result of this transformation, you become as christ and are united for all eternity.

I spoke with my priest about my thoughts, and he told me that the catholic church supported transubstantiation and that it was infallible. Ergo, I was wrong and I should change what I think. As a result, I became an Anglican. They still celebrate the holy eucharist, but do not believe that transubstantiation is a literal transformation from bread to flesh. This transition was eased, and possibly prompted, by the fact that my father was Anglican, but my mother was Catholic.

My "descent" from a protestant church to atheism is unrelated to this debate.

My opinions about god and the church did not reflect those of my chosen denomination, which was roman catholocism at the time. As a result, I moved to a different church which better suited my own beliefs.

Christians are always welcome to adhere to their own interpretation of god. However, I feel it is duplicitous to do so and attend a denominational church which does not share your opinions. It is lying to yourself, and to the church which you attend.

There are many denominations of christianity out there. Surely there is one which suits any set of beliefs that a christian may have.

This applies to the concieved morality of homosexuality as well. Some churches condone it, while others condemn it. Choose a church which agrees with what you think, not the other way around.

I apologize If I misrepresented myself.

That's ok. I guess it was my fault to for not realizing you were talking about specific denominations. I can understand where your coming from. I too have had people say that I was never a true Christian because I didn't "remain a disciple of Christ." In fact it's because of this sort of thing that i reacted the way I did. Even with reference to different denominations WITHIN a religion I don't think anyone really has any right to judge whether or not any particular person is a "true follower" except maybe in extreme cases where it's obvious they aren't following their particular faith at all. For instance you can't be Christian if you believe that what Jesus taught was all nonsense. Even with your example of transubstantiation that was just one aspect of the Roman catholic faith. Now unless the only difference between the Anglican denomination and the Roman Catholic denomination is their view on transubstantiation.... I guess my main idea is that one aspect of one's beliefs should not be a determining factor as to whether or not one is a true follower of a particular religion even when speaking of denominations, unless of course there is only one aspect that separates two denominations. But then I've never really focused much on the different denominations.... I don't know, I'm mainly just thinking out loud right now. I'm sorry if you think I over-reacted but the question in my response was meant only as a question and not in anger or anything like that. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I think part of it was motivated by the fact that, as I said, i don't think anyone has the right judge whether or not a person is a true follower of their professed religion. But that's just me

 

[Smoke]

However on that subject I can, without a shadow of a doubt, say that Catholicism condemns homosexuality.

Indeed it does.

Here it is, strait from the Jerusalem Bible, which is the universally accepted Catholic bible:

Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

I fail to see how that is debatable.

Ask yourself whether the Church enforces Leviticus 19.19 or 19.27.