Revisiting that question about Karma...

[Aupmanyav]

.. Asperger's Syndrome ..

Don't know about that but I see no problem in what you write. I like it.

 

[Maya3]

Another aspect that may be in Hindu dharma as well is how karma is interconnected? In my traditions you are influenced by what all others do and especially by those closest. If you picture the huge web or woven cloth - you feel/affected by even the furthest, smallest change and your deeds, fate, destiny, path is interdependent with others though primarily self-creating.

I wonder if that is some place in different words within Hindu traditions?

I think that this is a good way to explain it.

I'm not sure that I believe karma in the way that I did something bad so someone else will automatically do something bad to me.
I think it's more that we are repeating patterns and thoughts and that creates the same situations again and again.
I think too that like you said we are all connected and there will always be cause and effect

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

This shows it somewhat too: https://www.google.ca/search?q=domi...reader.wordpress.com%2Ftag%2Fkarma%2F;897;550

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I think it's more that we are repeating patterns and thoughts and that creates the same situations again and again.

Maya

This. It may be that we are not nessicarily reaping "punishment" for transgressions or mistakes we can't remember, but that karma is a process where we will encounter the same challenges over and over again until we make a different or more dharmik choice. We may encounter them in different bodies or scenarios but the lesson in need of learning will be the same. An example I like to use is the person that repeatedly gets into relationships with people they know are bad for them. They will continue this destructive behavior until they decide not to -either by getting help or personal epiphany.

In the film K-PAX - towards the end, the alien says to the main character basically that everything you've ever done, or experience will repeat itself forever until you "get it right" so get it right this time, because you'll only come back to it again.

So bad things happening to good people isn't really "bad" because what this person is facing is something they have needed to face for many lifetimes in order to evolve spiritually. In this way, Karma is not "cosmic justice" but a cosmic refining process - making us into the best versions of what we can be.

And it's true that it's only a guess. It is only used to explain what cannot be explained. But I think it's normal for human beings to postulate solutions. The only problem comes when we assert that our best guess is fact. For lack of evidence going one way or the other, why not appeal to the scenario that seems most logical. Again, assuming that no one is trying to push their beliefs on others, which many unfortunately do.

:camp:

 

[atanu]

Surely there is karma. The samsara is karma only. Of Jihva, what transmigrates from one life to another is also karma. One’s personality and life are the sum of karma. The universe is the primordial yajna (karma).

Thus, various kinds of sacrifices lie spread at the mouth of the Vedas. Know them all to be born of action. Knowing thus, you will become liberated. (4.32) (also 3.15)

But karma is of the gunas and by the gunas. The soul entangled in prakriti feels bound to karma but actually the atman is free, untainted.

While actions are being done in every way by the gunas (qualities) of Nature, one who is deluded by egotism thinks thus: “I am the doer”. (3.27)

The self is beyond action, does not act (3.27). It is one's nature that acts (13.29). Action leads to maturity (6.3).

Shri Krishna teaches that since the true nature of karma is difficult to comprehend, it is only necessary that one should know the actions that attach (bind) and actions that unbind.

The true nature of action is very difficult to understand. Therefore, one should know the nature of attached action, the nature of detached action, and also the nature of forbidden action. (4.17)

Lord speaks of Rebirth as taking place due to performance of ego motivated karma that eyes the fruits for oneself.

They are dominated by material desires, and consider the attainment of heaven as the highest goal of life. They engage in specific rites for the sake of prosperity and enjoyment. Rebirth is the result of their action. (2.43)

However, freedom from rebirth is the culmination of perfection of karma/yoga/jnana.

He who thus knows truly the divine birth and actions of Mine, does not get rebirth after casting off the body. He attains Me, O Arjuna. (4.09)

Those who have their intellect absorbed in That, who are steadfast in That, who have That as their supreme goal, - they attain the state of non-returning, their dirt having been removed by Knowledge. (5.17)

Here itself is rebirth conquered by them whose minds are established on sameness. Since Brahman is the same (in all) and free from defects, therefore they are established in Brahman. (5.19)

The following verses indicate that it is Lord Krishna (who has declared Himself as the Sovereign Self of all) who casts the demonic beings to their hells.

Resorting to egoism, power, arrogance, passion, and anger, hating Me in their own and others’ bodies, (they become) envious by nature. (16.18)
*
I cast for ever those hateful, cruel, evil-doers in the worlds, the vilest of human beings, verily into demoniacal classes. (16.19)

Being born among the demoniacal species in births after births, the fools, without ever reaching Me, O son of Kunti, attain conditions lower than that. (16.20)

Again, He ensures favourable re-birth for those engaged in auspicious karma.

The Blessed Lord said; O Partha, there is certainly no ruin for him here or hereafter. For no one engaged in good meets with deplorable end, My son ! (6.40)

Attaining the worlds of the righteous, and residing there for eternal years, the man fallen from Yoga is born in the house of the pious and the prosperous. (6.41)

Or he is born in the family of wise yogis only. Such a birth as is of this kind is surely more difficult to get in this world. (6.42)

There he becomes endowed with the wisdom acquired in the previous body. And he strives more than before for perfection, O scion of the Kuru dynasty. (6.43)

For, by that very past practice, he is carried forward even in spite of himself ! Even a seeker of Yoga transcends the results of Vedic rituals ! (6.44)

However, the yogi, applying himself assiduously, becoming purified from sin and attaining perfection through many births, thereby achieves the highest Goal. (6.45)

This is more or less a summary on Karma and Rebirth from Bhagavat Gita.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

Surely there is karma. The samsara is karma only. Of Jihva, what transmigrates from one life to another is also karma. One’s personality and life are the sum of karma. The universe is the primordial yajna (karma).




But karma is of the gunas and by the gunas. The soul entangled in prakriti feels bound to karma but actually the atman is free, untainted.


Shri Krishna teaches that since the true nature of karma is difficult to comprehend, it is only necessary that one should know the actions that attach (bind) and actions that unbind.



Lord speaks of Rebirth as taking place due to performance of ego motivated karma that eyes the fruits for oneself.



However, freedom from rebirth is the culmination of perfection of karma/yoga/jnana.




The following verses indicate that it is Lord Krishna (who has declared Himself as the Sovereign Self of all) who casts the demonic beings to their hells.




Again, He ensures favourable re-birth for those engaged in auspicious karma.




This is more or less a summary on Karma and Rebirth from Bhagavat Gita.

That information doesn't directly answer the OP though, since it doesn't explain why people who do good suffer from effects akin to those of pApaphalam-s. Your post seems to be more concerned with the nature of vimukti, no?

 

[Maya3]

This. It may be that we are not nessicarily reaping "punishment" for transgressions or mistakes we can't remember, but that karma is a process where we will encounter the same challenges over and over again until we make a different or more dharmik choice. We may encounter them in different bodies or scenarios but the lesson in need of learning will be the same. An example I like to use is the person that repeatedly gets into relationships with people they know are bad for them. They will continue this destructive behavior until they decide not to -either by getting help or personal epiphany.

In the film K-PAX - towards the end, the alien says to the main character basically that everything you've ever done, or experience will repeat itself forever until you "get it right" so get it right this time, because you'll only come back to it again.

So bad things happening to good people isn't really "bad" because what this person is facing is something they have needed to face for many lifetimes in order to evolve spiritually. In this way, Karma is not "cosmic justice" but a cosmic refining process - making us into the best versions of what we can be.

And it's true that it's only a guess. It is only used to explain what cannot be explained. But I think it's normal for human beings to postulate solutions. The only problem comes when we assert that our best guess is fact. For lack of evidence going one way or the other, why not appeal to the scenario that seems most logical. Again, assuming that no one is trying to push their beliefs on others, which many unfortunately do.

:camp:

I like how you explained this.
Also now I want to watch K Pax, I have a weakness for aliens

Maya

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I like how you explained this.
Also now I want to watch K Pax, I have a weakness for aliens

Maya

Just a heads up if you've never seen it...the alien looks just like a human...

Still excellent movie. One of my favorites.

:camp:

 

[atanu]

Quote:
The true nature of action is very difficult to understand. Therefore, one should know the nature of attached action, the nature of detached action, and also the nature of forbidden action. (Gita 4.17)

 

[Maya3]

Just a heads up if you've never seen it...the alien looks just like a human...

Still excellent movie. One of my favorites.

:camp:

That is ok, I love things like that.
Have you seen Battlestar Gallactica?

Maya