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Response of Muslims to cartoons under fire

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Now, is this "Freedom Of Speech" ?

Is this acceptable or understandable ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4682262.stm


Cartoon protest slogans condemned

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Many Muslims do not believe the protesters are representative

There has been widespread condemnation of a demonstration by Muslim protesters who threatened violence during a march.

Shadow home secretary David Davis said some of the messages on the placards amounted to "incitement to murder".

The protest on Friday in London over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad saw slogans such as "7/7 is on its way".

The police say they are studying photographs of those who attended and that arrests, if necessary, will be made at the "most appropriate time".

Separate protests held on Saturday passed off peacefully.

Police said more than 100 complaints had been received about the protests.

Among the images which have sparked outcry is one of Muhammad with a bomb-shaped turban on his head. Newspapers in Spain, Italy, Germany and France reprinted the material.

'Disgraceful'

Mr Davis told the Sunday Telegraph that protesters should be dealt with firmly by police.

"Clearly, some of these placards are incitement to violence, and indeed incitement to murder - an extremely serious offence which the police must deal with and deal with quickly," he said.

"Whatever your view on these cartoons, we have a tradition of freedom of speech in this country which has to be protected.

"Certainly there can be no tolerance of incitement to murder."

On Saturday, Asghar Bukhari, chairman of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, said the demonstration in London on Friday should have been stopped by police because the group had been advocating violence.

He said the protesters "did not represent British Muslims".

Mr Bukhari told the BBC News website: "The placards and chants were disgraceful and disgusting, Muslims do not feel that way.

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"I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."

He said that Muslims were angry over satirical cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad published in European papers but it was "outrageous" for anyone to advocate extreme action or violence.

"We believe it [the protest] should have been banned and the march stopped.

"It's irrelevant whether it's Muslims causing hatred or anyone else - freedom of speech has to be responsible."

Prosecution call

Meanwhile, Labour MP David Winnick called for people who waved threatening placards to be prosecuted.

Mr Winnick, a member of the House of Commons Home Affairs Committee, said: "The cartoons were deeply offensive to hundreds of millions of Muslims.

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Protesters waved placards outside London embassies on Friday



"But it is totally unacceptable that, on British soil, there should be thugs demonstrating for people to be beheaded and actually glorifying the atrocities of July 7.

"It is to be hoped that prosecutions will follow very quickly indeed."

He said those responsible who were temporarily in Britain should be deported, even it meant stripping them of permission previously given to remain in the country.

The Walsall North MP added that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in Britain "have the same distaste as the rest of us about these thugs".

"I hope it will be the last time we ever see such a demonstration, totally unacceptable to the Muslim community," he said.

Police estimated Friday's crowd at between 500 and 700 and no arrests were made.

On Saturday more protesters, organised by the Hizb ut-Tahrir group, gathered outside the Danish embassy in London.

It appeared that the rally was far more restrained than the one on Friday.

Police later said two men had been arrested near the embassy during the protest.

"They were arrested to prevent a breach of the peace, after a search by officers found leaflets including cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed," a Met spokeswoman said.

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Flanked by a forest of messages such as, "'Freedom' to insult", a speaker at Saturday's rally told the crowd they were demanding an end to "vilification".

"If you want to debate and criticise then we are ready and we have been waiting, but we are not going to accept these images," he said.

He called on "the governments of the Muslim world to completely sever all contact with European governments" until they had "controlled the media".

Taji Mustafa, a spokesman for Hizb ut-Tahir, told BBC's Sunday AM that the posters, images shown by the television programme, had featured in Friday's protests which his group had "nothing to do with".

"It had absolutely nothing to do with us, and we condemned those - they are not acceptable," he said.

"And many Muslim groups have condemned Friday's protests and the images that were used there.

"Our protest yesterday was very peaceful."

He said the group advises Muslims "not to stoop to the level of those who want to resort to insults on the Prophet of Islam" and instead to engage in peaceful, responsible protests. And these protests should demand the media outlets who published the cartoons should apologise, retract them and pledge to "never to repeat this offence" in the future, he said. He added that it was an "issue of respect" between people.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"Among the images which have sparked outcry is one of Muhammad with a bomb-shaped turban on His head."

How productive is it to try to correct depictions of Islam as a violent religion by resort to violent demonstrations, riot and mayhem?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Seyorni said:
"Among the images which have sparked outcry is one of Muhammad with a bomb-shaped turban on His head."

How productive is it to try to correct depictions of Islam as a violent religion by resort to violent demonstrations, riot and mayhem?
I just saw the actual cartoons a few minutes ago, for the first time. I cannot believe that people would get upset over this drivel. Once you see the cartoons, good grief... it is all mind boggling. So what if Muhammed is not supposed to be drawn. To say that the Muslim "extremist" reaction is an over-reaction is the understatement of the century, if not millenium.

I can hardly wait until the Iranians hold their little Holocause conference.
Check out this little tidbit from the Arab-European league itself.

The article:
http://www.arabeuropean.org/newsdetail.php?ID=94&PHPSESSID=0a800d3a903f8d9dcc78e27e1d6e2a4b

Dunno 'bout you, but this seems almost too pat. Something is very fishy in this whole hoopla about cartoons and the attitudes of non-muslims. Something just doesn't fit (other than sanity, of course.)

BTW: Their bandwidth is prolly going offscale, so the image may take awhile to load.
Frankly, this is way way beyond the cartoons that the Danish paper published. You can see them for yourself here.

http://www.free2code.net/~theo/mo/

Or try this link from News of the World UK

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news3.shtml
Police arrested a man carrying copies of the cartoons...
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
YmirGF said:
I just saw the actual cartoons a few minutes ago, for the first time. I cannot believe that people would get upset over this drivel. Once you see the cartoons, good grief... it is all mind boggling. So what if Muhammed is not supposed to be drawn. To say that the Muslim "extremist" reaction is an over-reaction is the understatement of the century, if not millenium.

I can hardly wait until the Iranians hold their little Holocause conference.
Check out this little tidbit from the Arab-European league itself.

The article:
http://www.arabeuropean.org/newsdetail.php?ID=94&PHPSESSID=0a800d3a903f8d9dcc78e27e1d6e2a4b

Dunno 'bout you, but this seems almost too pat. Something is very fishy in this whole hoopla about cartoons and the attitudes of non-muslims. Something just doesn't fit (other than sanity, of course.)

BTW: Their bandwidth is prolly going offscale, so the image may take awhile to load.
Frankly, this is way way beyond the cartoons that the Danish paper published. You can see them for yourself here.

http://www.free2code.net/~theo/mo/

Or try this link from News of the World UK

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news3.shtml
Police arrested a man carrying copies of the cartoons...
Wow, I see what you mean about over-reaction!:confused:
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
I really feel bad for the Muslims that aren't that extreme. :/ It's going to take a lot of time to get everyone to realize not all Muslims or even most are that out there.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Jensa said:
I really feel bad for the Muslims that aren't that extreme. :/ It's going to take a lot of time to get everyone to realize not all Muslims or even most are that out there.
The same can be said of any stereotyped people.

At the moment, all we see is fundementalists who are stiring up trouble (simply because all the good quiet and 'genuinely good' ones don't get in the news.;)
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
michel said:
all we see is fundementalists who are stiring up trouble (simply because all the good quiet and 'genuinely good' ones don't get in the news.;)

That's because the "genuinely good" ones won't protest what the genuinely bad ones are doing for fear of being killed.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Jensa said:
I really feel bad for the Muslims that aren't that extreme. :/ It's going to take a lot of time to get everyone to realize not all Muslims or even most are that out there.
That in a nutshell is the real problem Jensa, imo. Most Muslims really ARE fine people and yet we are all being manipulated with this political nonesense. When will we all wake up?
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
:(


I just hope that I have been doing enough to help explain what the Qur'an really says. There is no justification for this anywhere in Islam.
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
jamaesi said:
I just hope that I have been doing enough to help explain what the Qur'an really says. There is no justification for this anywhere in Islam.

The Koran is not Islam. Islam is the will of the Muslim people. The Koran is supposed to be the direct law of god. Religion is not perfect and always falls short of the direct laws of god. Islam is what the Muslims do.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I think the non-extreme Moslems are between a rock and a hard place.
It is as difficult for them as it is for us to deal with the extremists.
If we try to do something we just inflame them more. If their brethren try, they get ostracized or killed.
There is a lesson for every one to learn... but at the moment the classroom is very one sided.


Terry________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Terrywoodenpic said:
I think the non-extreme Moslems are between a rock and a hard place.
It is as difficult for them as it is for us to deal with the extremists.
If we try to do something we just inflame them more. If their brethren try, they get ostracized or killed.
There is a lesson for every one to learn... but at the moment the classroom is very one sided.

I think terrorists know that there is a market for violence. But, I think what the extremists need to see is that the market place is changing. I think if the majority of muslims organize and march on the capitals of the world to demand an end to terrorism, to let their numbers be seen, to let their voices be heard, it could create a real shift. But as of now, we don't know how many Muslims are against terrorism, or how passionate they are. If I saw any real outrage about terrorism in the Muslim community, I'd be inspired. But all I see are press releases and words, words, words.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
The Koran is not Islam. Islam is the will of the Muslim people. The Koran is supposed to be the direct law of god. Religion is not perfect and always falls short of the direct laws of god. Islam is what the Muslims do.

Islam actually means submission. Submission to the will of G-d ALONE- which is held in the Qur'an.

So yes, the Qur'an is Islam. And the Qur'an tells us to follow only the Qur'an.

Islam is what Muslims do, submit to the Qur'an.


Just what are you trying to pull here?
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
jamaesi said:
Islam is what Muslims do, submit to the Qur'an.

It doesn't really seem that way. Have you ever read a book called "The History of the Arab People" by Albert Hourani? I think Islam is what Muslims do, and I don't think submitting to the Koran is the only thing they do. Islam is much more complex and interesting than that.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I, like everyone I know, have never seen the origional cartoons.
So I find it hard to make a Judgement on them.
It seems very few of the protestors have seen them either.
Their judgement and reaction can not therefore, be justified either.

I have seen Moslem caricatures of Christians and Jews of a very extreme nature.
These have not been suppressed by the religious authorities in Moslem countries but encouraged.
There seem to be a huge gulf between their middle aged moderates in the UK and the young radicals.
I see no prospect of European countries changing their freedoms, in favour of Moslem requests for censorship.
If I was living in a country whose laws and religious ethics disagreed with my own, I would move to a more congenial place.
Whilst I would never repatriate any one who had not broken any laws;
the concept is rather better then having them flogged or killed as could be the punishment for us, in similar circumstances.

Terry_______________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
YmirGF said:
That in a nutshell is the real problem Jensa, imo. Most Muslims really ARE fine people and yet we are all being manipulated with this political nonesense. When will we all wake up?
I'm Awake!:D but readers who are awake don't read propaganda that sells newspapers.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
It doesn't really seem that way. Have you ever read a book called "The History of the Arab People" by Albert Hourani? I think Islam is what Muslims do, and I don't think submitting to the Koran is the only thing they do. Islam is much more complex and interesting than that.
Being a Muslim who follows the Qur'an, I can tell you it's pretty clear that the Qur'an tells us to follow only the Qur'an. I don't speak for the Sunnis or Shiites, however.
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
I think this is just an excuse by anti-western people to be anti-western, in the same way flag burning is taken as an excuse to be anti-Muslim by anti-muslims.
 
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