Repost: Arguments for Existence

[[WURM]]

(re-post from the luciferianism forum)

Arguments for the Existence of Lucifer and/or Satan

There, in the history of man, have often been arguments for the existence of god. Personally, I find none of them to be sound. If there ever was a truly sound argument, more philosophers would have accepted god (speaking contemporarily) and Kant wouldn’t have been able to show that arguing for god is pointless because faith is a whole other matter than reasoning and logic. Anyway, my proposition is a question to luciferians and Satanists: have you any arguments for the existence of either a being or a non-material force that might be considered Lucifer or Satan – or – more precisely, why choose theism?

I would probably call myself an anti-theist; yet, luciferian for personal symbolism.

Anyone?

 

[Valor]

have you any arguments for the existence of either a being or a non-material force that might be considered Lucifer or Satan – or – more precisely, why choose theism?

Anyone?

Wurm,

i would have to say when concerning the mundane world, our objective universe, we will have to identify Satan/Lucifer as (the) Nature. We can not expect, while being rational, that there is an anthropomorphic being with horns, wearing red tights while tempting us to do naughty bad things. lol.

We must be able to be rational and deduce scientific facts from mythology or metaphorical representations.

Webb identifies this as "Formulations of correct understandings by logic" saying...having discarded the untrue and the nonessential, we are left with the building blocks for creating a universe. These notions may have been gained from science, personal experiences from other philosophical/psychological belief systems, or from findings from other Initiates with whom we've chosen to Work. Creative synthesis of ideas--a self-managed dialectic, if you will-- has been a major source of human knowledge. Setians begin a creation of a model of the universe in order to understand it (and when necessary, exert control of it through Magic and other means). One of the Aims of Xeper is to understand the relationship of yourself to the universe. This is a tough road. We are placed in the position of Socrates, the wisest man in Greece, who said, "I know nothing." We look at the universe as an exciting place to study rather than as a dull finished product.

You can also look into "Socratic reductionism" and "Noetic inspiration."

 

[Adramelek]

On a personal level, those who seek to prove the existence of the Dark Entity or Satan/Lucifer/Set must come to their own dicisions on this through study and emperical exprience. As for me, I have seen and experienced so many things in my life that have convinced me that the Prince of Darkness is a reality. The human psyche, known to Setians as the Gift of Set to humanity, knows no limits in its potential.

The Set-created psyche or soul or self, is the Essence of Set which he infused within that which would become mankind in aeons past. This Setian Essence transcends nature, that is to say, it is a non-natural phenomemon. Though through millions of years of evolution it has become a natural part of the human condition.

I don't want to get too deep into the mechanics of the Dark Gift. But if your looking for proof of the existence of the Prince of Darkness, in the words of Dr. Michael Aquino - "Us is it."

/Adramelek\

 

[Werden]

Originally didn't have any intention to reply to this thread, just watch the conversation, however this came to Mind :

I think, therefore the Prince of Darkness Is.

I am personally approaching the topic from the inspiration I have received by Ips. Webb, Ips. Flowers, Ips. Aquino, as well as other Setians and much philosophy (Plato, Anaxagoras, Nietzsche, and more) along with various other ideas. These are my own and I don't claim them to be representational of any of my influences listed here.

But seeing the Prince of Darkness as the Principle of Isolate Intelligence, without the Gift of Set or the Black Flame (or if you prefer the Gift of Ond(?) by Odhinn) would we be able to posses the Antinomian ideas and thoughts we are entertaining here?

Whether we see the Prince of Darkness as the Principle of Isolate Intelligence (as I do) or as Satan/Lucifer/etc. somehow we, as conscious and sentient beings, are able to conceive of Rebellion, of Growth outside the 'norm' and sleeping state which is 'natural', we can (re)-invent ourSelves, and so much more. Something long ago quickened this in our philosophical ancestors, and something allows for it to continue through the Ages and AEons. We are not told how to use it, we are given this Gift and then must use it ourselves. That -something- which allowed for that capacity in humans and continues to allow for that capacity in humans : THAT exists and is beyond Ancient.

Xeper!
- Werden -

 

[Adramelek]

Werden,

Another interesting thing about Wotan is that in his Desire to know the Secret of the Runes, he sacrificed is right eye in order to gain the Knowledge of the Runes. This is why he is known as Wotan of the One Eye.

/Adramelek\

 

[Werden]

Adramelek -

Indeed

I've been personally fascinated with the stories, sagas, myths, and more which deal with Odhinn/Wotan. He is an anomalous entity in the pantheon of the North, and quite an interesting example for modern seekers of the LHP. Somewhat a "god against the gods", as is Set.

Xeper!
- Werden -

 

[Adramelek]

Ave Werden:

You might want to check out some of the many books written by Dr. Stephen Flowers on Rune Magic and Runology under his name of Edred Thorsson, as well as, his books on Hermetic and Setian Magic under which he goes by his real name. As you probably know Flower's is the Magus V* of the Aeon Enhancing Word Runa.

Flowers is also the Grand Master Emeritus of the Order of the Trapezoid in the ToS.

Xeper!
/Adramelek\

 

[Valor]

On a personal level, those who seek to prove the existence of the Dark Entity or Satan/Lucifer/Set must come to their own dicisions on this through study and emperical exprience. As for me, I have seen and experienced so many things in my life that have convinced me that the Prince of Darkness is a reality. The human psyche, known to Setians as the Gift of Set to humanity, knows no limits in its potential.

/Adramelek\

Yes... What I'm trying to say in as less words as possible is that i don't expect to get into a slapping contest with Satan/Lucifer/Set..ect..

Within my psyche, Set as unbound influence, yes. But i know that we won't be sharing tea during brunch tomorrow.

Excelsi! Valor.

 

[Adramelek]

Within my psyche, Set has unbound influence, yes. But I know that we won't be sharing tea during brunch tomorrow. Valor

It should also be noted that Set, the Prince of Darkness, is a finite Being. He is eternal, but is not everywhere at once. In my opinion Set sees the world through the eyes of His Elect, those who possess further of His Essence.

The Left-Hand Path is a lonely one. Set isn't going to do the Work for us nor is he going to hold our hand and tell us everything is going to be alright. Set enshrined within us the Will to Come Into Being. We must do the Work and Initiate ourselves, and with each step of Xeper we gain more of the strength of Set, yet we are basically on our own.

Set Created and Initiated himSelf and expects the same of us. Though I do think there are times, though very rare, in our Life's Initiatory journey that He may guide us in the right (no pun intended) direction.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Valor]

Within my psyche, Set has unbound influence, yes. But I know that we won't be sharing tea during brunch tomorrow. Valor

It should also be noted that Set, the Prince of Darkness, is a finite Being. He is eternal, but is not everywhere at once. In my opinion Set sees the world through the eyes of His Elect, those who possess further of His Essence.

The Left-Hand Path is a lonely one. Set isn't going to do the Work for us nor is he going to hold our hand and tell us everything is going to be alright. Set enshrined within us the Will to Come Into Being. We must do the Work and Initiate ourselves, and with each step of Xeper we gain more of the strength of Set, yet we are basically on our own.

Set Created and Initiated himSelf and expects the same of us. Though I do think there are times, though very rare, in our Life's Initiatory journey that He may guide us in the right (no pun intended) direction.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

There said: "Great is the Might of Set, Greater still he is though Us.