Religious views on abortion

[Fool]

as seen so often when people declare things to be true, it is presumption, I guess.
There is no scripture on earth that shows your point. Neither does science.
It's an unsupported allegation. A theory that some may adhere to.

actually there is.

John 6:63

 

[thomas t]

actually there is.

John 6:63

John 6:63 only says that the spirit makes you alive.
That doesn't mean that the unborn does not have spirit but is empty flesh instead.
The spirit could have been active there, too.

 

[Fool]

John 6:63 only says that the spirit makes you alive.
That doesn't mean that the unborn does not have spirit but is empty flesh instead.
The spirit could have been active there, too.

again, you are given the pattern with adam in genesis. there is no other pattern.

Genesis 2:7. the body is formed 1st. when the breath of life is given\taken then the self is.

a body can be maintained on life support but what good is that without the spirit to live

 

[thomas t]

again, you are given the pattern with adam in genesis. there is no other pattern.

Genesis 2:7. the body is formed 1st. when the breath of life is given\taken then the self is.

a body can be maintained on life support but what good is that without the spirit to live

ah that's a good point.
However, Adam had no existence in the mother's womb.
He never has been there.
God created him directly.
So, there is no pattern that is the same as with Adam, because the way Adam came into existence is completely different from that for us humans today.

Incomparable, I think.

 

[1213]

I was thinking from the other thread-to religious people only (which doesn't mean you have to believe in god)-what does your religious practice, tradition, scripture, "so have you" say about the value of life in relation to abortion?

In non-scripture focused religions, does your decision about abortion stim from morality you picked up in your practice, a societal law you agree with (if for or against), what are your standards that help you decide either way?...

My decision is based on these:

…You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat. 22:37-39

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I don’t hate little children, and I don’t see why they would deserve death penalty, and I would not want to be killed in the same situation. That is why I am against abortion.

 

[Fool]

ah that's a good point.
However, Adam had no existence in the mother's womb.
He never has been there.
God created him directly.
So, there is no pattern that is the same as with Adam, because the way Adam came into existence is completely different from that for us humans today.

Incomparable, I think.

paul reiterates

1 Corinthians 15:46

 

[thomas t]

paul reiterates

1 Corinthians 15:46

this passage merely says that there is an order between soul and spirit.
Adam was a soul.
This does not rule out that unborns are living souls.

 

[Fool]

My decision is based on these:

…You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat. 22:37-39

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I don’t hate little children, and I don’t see why they would deserve death penalty, and I would not want to be killed in the same situation. That is why I am against abortion.

the problem with your view as that you see people having children as child haters.


most people don't get pregnant so they can kill unborn future babies. most people don't like invasive procedures at all. so your believe has nothing to do with love.

 

[Fool]

this passage merely says that there is an order between soul and spirit.
Adam was a soul.
This does not rule out that unborns are living souls.

yes, the first is earthly and the second is spiritual as shown to you and you keep claiming scripture doesn't

 

[Fool]

so the bible states that the Spirit comes from God. this is why you are to call no one on earth Father, god is your father. your body was created through the splitting of a cell, earthly. you spirit comes into this at some point in development because it isn't carnal\earthly. it transcends that.

so the seal of david signifies this. The spirit coming down and then rising back up. this is the shekinahk.


so the electrical creates and maintains the chemical body

 

[aki sharma]

I was thinking from the other thread-to religious people only (which doesn't mean you have to believe in god)-what does your religious practice, tradition, scripture, "so have you" say about the value of life in relation to abortion?

In non-scripture focused religions, does your decision about abortion stim from morality you picked up in your practice, a societal law you agree with (if for or against), what are your standards that help you decide either way?

This is to those who do have an "either/or" scenario-justifications are fine but the justifications need to be backed up with reason(s) based on your practice or faith.

Those not religious, I can tell by the other thread what many of you believe... so...

<a href=”HINDU DHARMA ->HINDU DHARMA</a>

 

[viole]

I look at it like this, as a Christian, I believe in capital punishment but not abortion, and my skeptic friends reverse that, because the lives of murderers are more important than the lives of children, thus religiosity is shown to be sane.

Except that we do not call child a bunch of replicating cells that would require a microbiologist to differentiate from an amoeba.

And most Christians here abhor the death penalty.

Ciao

- viole

 

[McBell]

I look at it like this, as a Christian, I believe in capital punishment but not abortion, and my skeptic friends reverse that, because the lives of murderers are more important than the lives of children, thus religiosity is shown to be sane.

You do know it is illegal to kill children, right?
You also know that skeptics do not condone the killing of children, right?
Even if said children make fun of a priest....

 

[Unveiled Artist]

<a href=”HINDU DHARMA ->HINDU DHARMA</a>

Do you have an english translation and what specifically should I read?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would not want to be killed in the same situation. That is why I am against abortion.

True. Seeing it by putting yourself in the victims shoes gains better perspective.

It makes me think who would want another to condem them to death than the consequences of one's own actions?

In my opinion, it sounds like rememants of original sin theory and feeling we are so at fault we need a judge to punish us. It's a very depressing way to see life.

 

[thomas t]

yes, the first is earthly and the second is spiritual as shown to you and you keep claiming scripture doesn't

what?
No.
I keep claiming that scripture does not show that the unborn life is empty flesh - flesh without a soul.
Claiming that scripture does show this was your point originally, see #32.
There was no mentioning of spirit in that one.

 

[Fool]

what?
No.
I keep claiming that scripture does not show that the unborn life is empty flesh - flesh without a soul.
Claiming that scripture does show this was your point originally, see #32.
There was no mentioning of spirit in that one.

i didn't say it was empty flesh. it's attached to a living being. it has no soul because its on life support. it's kept alive and as part of the body of the other, the host. two spirits cannot inhabit the same body. that is possession.

the bible speaks on the idea of two spirits inhabiting one body

 

[thomas t]

two spirits cannot inhabit the same body. that is possession.

the bible speaks on the idea of two spirits inhabiting one body

well that's a good point.
There are people who lost spirits, though. Jesus had a habit in casting out spirits, for example.
Before and after he did so, they were full human beings. It's not that after or before a spirit leaves you, you lose your human traits, I think.

it has no soul because its on life support. it's kept alive by the other.

Many elderly people are being kept alive by others. This does not prevent them from having a soul.
Even I once had a life threatening surgery and was kept alive by various high tech things. It turned out well after 6 hours of operation.
Thanks to Yahweh.

 

[Fool]

well that's a good point.
There are people who lost spirits, though. Jesus had a habit in casting out spirits, for example.
Before and after he did so, they were full human beings. It's not that after or before a spirit leaves you, you lose your human traits, I think.k

two spirits cannot inhabit the same body. there is no dancing around, over, through, under. you're just trying to hold onto your ego at this point.

Many elderly people are being kept alive by others. This does not prevent them from having a soul.
Even I once had a life threatening surgery and was kept alive by various high tech things. It turned out well after 6 hours of operation.
Thanks to Yahweh.

being kept alive on artificial life support with no brain activity, isn't living. its called a vegetative state. my hand is attached to my body, if i decide to remove it, that isn't murder.

your ego wants to believe your form is more important than your spirit. jesus said the spirit was more important than the body.

matthew 5:13
matthew 18:8
mark 9:43k


a miscarriage is known in medical terminology as a spontaneous abortion. so if a mother aborts the baby without assistance some mothers have rejected the fetus spontaneously.

 

[thomas t]

two spirits cannot inhabit the same body. there is no dancing around, over, through, under. you're just trying to hold onto your ego at this point.

actually I do not.
Regardless of how many spirits there can or cannot be inside a human's body... before and after Jesus casts out spirits from people they're fully human.

your ego

this is getting personal, please stop it.

The question of whether unborns are human beings... is independent from the question what's more important (spirit or body).
I'm here to discuss the former.