Religious Politics - Secularized "Christmas"

[Pah]

You hear a lot of complaints about taking the "Christ" out of Christmas. Is that an atheist or otherwise secular plot to degrade the season? Hardly. Much of the blame lies in commerial interests and in the decreased emphasis, almost to the point of extinction, on the liturgical seasons.

How many Christians celebrate or do the following:

Attend mass, or the equivalent, on Christmas day
Michaelmas
Candlemas
Childermas
The Feast of the Epiphany
The Advent season
Gift-giving in the real Christmas season, which occurs Christmas day and lasts 12 days
Put up a Christmas tree in Advent
Use Christmas as a day of contemplating Christ, and not for engaging in commerce
Eschew Pagan smybols and practise, i.e., Santa Claus, the colors red and green, holly, mistletoe, the yule log, sing carols, and evergreen trees​

Aside from the apostolic denominations, is mass even avaialable?

The practice of the shopping season was begun as a service to those who had relatives oversea in WWII. A season for increasing merchandising profit was very much appreciated, was continued and made even more grandiose.

Food Lion,in my neighborhood, had cut Christmas trees available one week before Thanksgiving. Phffft

So ....

 

[RevOxley_501]

nice stuff



I personally HATE christmas, and every vile thing it stands for. WHY? because what it stands for is stupid Christians (and others) buying gifts for people that done deserve them, and occasionally saying "now dont forget the REAL meaning of CHRISTmas"...WHICH IS NOT CHRIST. you hit it on the head when you talk about pagan symbols---pagan symbols are just fine and dandy--for PAGANS, but for Christians---they should be understood if not avoided (as in i would prefer people actually know symbolism if they are going to celebrate it).

If Christians are to be taken seriously, they should first understand their own beliefs and rituals---and instead of celebrating holidays they dont know jack about, take the time to do some real charity--fight for peace (oxymoronic huh?), feed the poor, LEARN SOMETHING, and get their heads out of the proverbial sand.

I know alot of the christians here DO know the truth about Mithra and the Equinox of Christmas, and the trees and logs, and clauses and colors etc---and for them i say---well heck---i dont understand WHY you still celebrate it--but AT LEAST you know about it---and that much is GREAT. I personally cant do it out of my own convictions.

 

[Gentoo]

I don't know about Christianity, but Candlemas is a completely different holiday in some Pagan religions, having very little to do with Christmas. Candlemas is celebrated on Feb. 2 to celebrate the light of the sun growing stronger and the very first signs of spring.

Is there another Candlemas? (Even though that has nothing to do with the OP.... sorry )

 

[Mathematician]

Pah (and others), you might be interested to read this:

http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/BahHumbug.htm

What is Humbug?:
The phrase “Bah, Humbug” is today connected solely to Christmas due to Charles Dickens’ character Scrooge, and most people think it represents a general denunciation of others’ having a good time. The word humbug actually means “something intended to deceive, a fraud; an impostor; nonsense, rubbish; pretense, deception.” This word has value which should be reclaimed, and the purpose of this exercise is to point out some of the pretense, deception, and nonsense in modern Christmas celebrations.

Caution to our Christian friends: the author has his opinions.

 

[RevOxley_501]

i beleive Christmas is lunar isnt it??? been a while since i studies wiccan holidays

 

[RevOxley_501]

Pah (and others), you might be interested to read this:

http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/BahHumbug.htm



Caution to our Christian friends: the author has his opinions.

ohh man, im gonna be saying this more than ever now!!!


:llama: (FREAKIN LLAMA)

 

[Pah]

Pah (and others), you might be interested to read this:

http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/BahHumbug.htm



Caution to our Christian friends: the author has his opinions.

Hehehe! My list is from Cline as well, modified and expanded http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/SecularChristma.htm?nl=1

 

[Pah]

i beleive Christmas is lunar isnt it??? been a while since i studies wiccan holidays

The church calander is lunar as well but then the world was lunar in earlier days

 

[RevOxley_501]

then we will assume it is

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I personally see nothing wrong with the secularization of Christmas. To me, a holiday generates its own energy to the person celebrating it, regardless of the symbolism that others put to it. A celebration is a celebration.

Holidays become different things to different people, even those of the same religion. For instance, I see Christmas as the celebration of life in the midst of winter. Lights, evergreens, friends, music, liquor (especially) - it all produces an energy that I recognize as the Christmas spirit, despite me not being Christian.

I do have a problem with the commercialization of it, though. I see nothing wrong with gift giving, but it gets out of hand. When people put buying things above the celebration, there's something wrong.

 

[Snowbear]

Well... since Christ was put into Christmas, why not take Him out?
Why the need to 'celebrate' His birth?
Why especially the need to use a traditionally Pagan holiday to do so?

 

[RevOxley_501]

Well... since Christ was put into Christmas, why not take Him out?
Why the need to 'celebrate' His birth?
Why especially the need to use a traditionally Pagan holiday to do so?

exactly--so thats what i do

 

[Katzpur]

I love Christmas and nothing anybody can say will change that. To me, the Christmas season is one of the nicest times of the year. I would prefer that it be less commercialized, but I think it can be just about as spiritual a time as we're willing to make it. Yes, I have a Christmas tree. So what? I know that Jesus wasn't born on December 25 and I am familiar with the pagan origins of the holiday. But I love to listen to Christmas carols -- particularly the religious ones, especially when sung by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I bought a new nativity scene this year. It is so beautiful. I don't think I've ever seen a nicer one. I love reading of the Savior's birth in the gospel of Luke, and spending time with my loved ones. I love Christmas decorations, both at my home and in the stores. And believe me, you haven't seen Christmas lights until you've seen Temple Square at Christmas.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I love Christmas and nothing anybody can say will change that. To me, the Christmas season is one of the nicest times of the year. I would prefer that it be less commercialized, but I think it can be just about as spiritual a time as we're willing to make it...

:clap Frubals for a most excellent post!

I can't change the origins of Christmas, but I do what I can to keep the Christ in Christmas in my lifetime. :162:

 

[lizskid]

The business aspect of it has not gone unrecognized even in Christian churches. Remember that Christmas was a Sunday last year???? Well...I posted this on another site last year and it was actually the case!

It has been reported that many of the megachurches are closing on Christmas,with the expectation of few worshippers attending. The spokesman of one such church in Illinois said they felt it was not the best use of staff and volunteer time to offer service on Christmas Sunday. A spokeman for a more mainline, smaller church in Massachusetts said he felt this was working from a consumer/marketing mindset and he was appalled.

What's your thought? It is a unique time when Christmas falls on a Sunday(last time was 1994), should worship be offered for whoever attends? Should the churches close and wait til the next Sunday to get more bang for their buck?

How in any sort of Christian conscience anyone could not offer service on Christmas day was beyond me, but that is what happened. It wasn't COST EFFECTIVE because people might not come, or not enough would, or whatever. Tell me what the first concern of those churches was.....not the origin of Christmas. By the way, Jesus was born in the Spring, just to muddy the waters a bit more.

 

[Katzpur]

How in any sort of Christian conscience anyone could not offer service on Christmas day was beyond me, but that is what happened.

This is one of the few things I'm not happy with about my Church. We always have a special Christmas program the Sunday before Christmas but that's it (unless Christmas actually falls on a Sunday, in which case the special service is right on Christmas). This year it works out fine, since the service will be on Christmas Eve. But when Christmas falls on a Saturday, it kind of sucks, because the Christmas program is almost a whole week before the holiday.

 

[Mathematician]

What I'm puzzled, and even horrified by, is how parents in particular put emphasis on the gifts instead of the other concepts such as being good to your fellow man, Christ, or for our Pagan friends, the beauty of nature. While gift giving and recieving is a fun practice and I wouldn't want for it be completely eliminated, I'd like to think more parents would be open to teaching their kids it goes beyond material items. For each Friday in the December month, why not hold family game night? Bring out the old Monopoly and Life boards and have it. Also, since schools have been recently in the sights of both sides, why don't they gather a bunch of different fundraisers the week before winter break and start beckoning their students and staff to supply the needy? How about families start taking their kids to church regularly during this month, or if they are atheist, to the local community center?

Some Christians, I think, are ashamed at how many of their own fall for the sin of greed during these holiday months, but unfortunately most are sheeps to the television and wants.

 

[porkchop]

nice stuff



I personally HATE christmas, and every vile thing it stands for. WHY? because what it stands for is stupid Christians (and others) buying gifts for people that done deserve them, and occasionally saying "now dont forget the REAL meaning of CHRISTmas"...WHICH IS NOT CHRIST. you hit it on the head when you talk about pagan symbols---pagan symbols are just fine and dandy--for PAGANS, but for Christians---they should be understood if not avoided (as in i would prefer people actually know symbolism if they are going to celebrate it).

If Christians are to be taken seriously, they should first understand their own beliefs and rituals---and instead of celebrating holidays they dont know jack about, take the time to do some real charity--fight for peace (oxymoronic huh?), feed the poor, LEARN SOMETHING, and get their heads out of the proverbial sand.

I know alot of the christians here DO know the truth about Mithra and the Equinox of Christmas, and the trees and logs, and clauses and colors etc---and for them i say---well heck---i dont understand WHY you still celebrate it--but AT LEAST you know about it---and that much is GREAT.

I personally cant do it out of my own convictions.[/

quote]
This you get convicted about???:faint: ????????????????

 

[porkchop]

In response to Katzpurs post: WE AGREE ON SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :woohoo: :cheer: :faint:

 

[RevOxley_501]

nice stuff



I personally HATE christmas, and every vile thing it stands for. WHY? because what it stands for is stupid Christians (and others) buying gifts for people that done deserve them, and occasionally saying "now dont forget the REAL meaning of CHRISTmas"...WHICH IS NOT CHRIST. you hit it on the head when you talk about pagan symbols---pagan symbols are just fine and dandy--for PAGANS, but for Christians---they should be understood if not avoided (as in i would prefer people actually know symbolism if they are going to celebrate it).

If Christians are to be taken seriously, they should first understand their own beliefs and rituals---and instead of celebrating holidays they dont know jack about, take the time to do some real charity--fight for peace (oxymoronic huh?), feed the poor, LEARN SOMETHING, and get their heads out of the proverbial sand.

I know alot of the christians here DO know the truth about Mithra and the Equinox of Christmas, and the trees and logs, and clauses and colors etc---and for them i say---well heck---i dont understand WHY you still celebrate it--but AT LEAST you know about it---and that much is GREAT.quote]
This you get convicted about???:faint: ????????????????

yea---i get convicted about being stupid---and being a hypocrite



you do not


we serve different Gods perhaps?