Religion is passe,

[mho123]

You have yet to present any facts. Hint: stereotypes don't count.

If you want a real conversation, you have to start listening. If you want to be treated with respect, you need to show some.

So, actually, the choice is yours.

Oké storm , first of all i gave up on you and evandr , its hopeless discussing With you Guys,
for other people who really want to learn something here are THE facts
Everyone pretends they chose their religion ans they are one hindred procent sure that it is THE right religion , without à doubt , while in fact we follow THE religion just because its been imposed in us . We believe what we believe cause we are told to do so . Proof if there ever was à concious choice you would expect that tgere should be as much christians in morokko as there are moslims , and vice versa , as many moslims among danish people as there are christians . If you look at percentages it is statistically PROVEN that there is NO CHOICE here , we just do / believe what we are told to ( bence THE term brainwashing , or indoctrination or whatever is THE right woord )
fact : there is No God , and No its not true that there has to be one because of THE complexity , of THE marvelous world we live in and THE amazing humans has to be created by something called God . Thats NOT THE reason you believe in God , its à lie you keep ( you as any person not you specifically , so dont get mad at me again for attacking you ) keep telling to yourself . If we follow THE Logic that THE universe , THE world being so complex had to be created by an even complexer CREATOR called God ,then god himself bring the creator of the universe could never be ecisting by chancr , And he should be created by TOD ,, !!!! What a nonsense huh ??? Well if one is HONEST to say that this is the logic one believes in god , then From now on one should believe in tod , the supreme creator , even the creator of god ,, but no noone is going to believe in tod , cause they never believed in god for the Above mentioned reason , ( they are basically lying to you , to me and to themselves )
why do they believe than ,, what is the advantage of believing ?
Fırst of all its comfortable to be ignorant ,, we all have fears , of loosing our health , our loved ones , getting hurt etc , and the Mother of all fears is death , And that's where religion plays it's trick , believe and you will live forever ,, it takes away a bit of the fear doesn't it ?
We are kidding ourselves , just to feel a bit safe . ( doesn't change the fact that they are all lies ,, we still believe ) otherwise when you die it's all finished , and that's BAD .
We believe in religionX because we were born in a country who mainly dominated by religionX , our parents are from religionx ( yeah yeah storm I know you are not one of the average people , you are a special case , this one goes to average believer) our friends , our teacher , tv shows , media ,, everything tells us that religionX is the way to go and after a while we get so brainwashed that we seriously start believing that , that REALLY is the case . Not even considering the fact that people in country Y also think the same as their religionY . They are also sooooo convinced that religionY is the way to go .
Facts : religion has never been about god or bad .but about power and control of people . Otherwise how would you convince a young Arab man to wrap himself in explosieves and go and kill innocent people and himself .
Fact : religion has allways been against science and development . The motto is keep them dumb so that you can manipulate them . If they learn more they will not believe it that one man couldn't build a wooden boat , to put pairs of all animals in it . If you know the material strength of wood number of species , logistic problem of gathering all those animals , and that genetic pool that wouldn't sustain future generations of animals THEN YOU KNOW ITS A LIE . But as long as people are dumb you can make them believe these lies . If they get smart , they you can allways ******** your way around it saying it's symbolic or something of that calliber.
I think i will stop here .
It's 230 a m here and tomorrow is a working day
I hoop at least some people will read this and start thinking , start using their brains , cause if not , if we continue like this we are doomed .
That's all for now
next week we continue
bye wherever you are whatever you believe in .

 

[Storm]

Oké storm , first of all i gave up on you and evandr , its hopeless discussing With you Guys,

Oh, whatever will I do without you to show me the light? You're like the atheist version of this guy:

for other people who really want to learn something here are THE facts

Oh, this should be good.

Everyone pretends they chose their religion ans they are one hindred procent sure that it is THE right religion , without à doubt , while in fact we follow THE religion just because its been imposed in us . We believe what we believe cause we are told to do so . Proof if there ever was à concious choice you would expect that tgere should be as much christians in morokko as there are moslims , and vice versa , as many moslims among danish people as there are christians . If you look at percentages it is statistically PROVEN that there is NO CHOICE here , we just do / believe what we are told to ( bence THE term brainwashing , or indoctrination or whatever is THE right woord )

Stereotype 1.

fact : there is No God

If it's a fact, it can be proven. Put up or shut up.

, and No its not true that there has to be one because of THE complexity , of THE marvelous world we live in and THE amazing humans has to be created by something called God . Thats NOT THE reason you believe in God , its à lie you keep ( you as any person not you specifically , so dont get mad at me again for attacking you ) keep telling to yourself . If we follow THE Logic that THE universe , THE world being so complex had to be created by an even complexer CREATOR called God ,then god himself bring the creator of the universe could never be ecisting by chancr , And he should be created by TOD ,, !!!! What a nonsense huh ??? Well if one is HONEST to say that this is the logic one believes in god , then From now on one should believe in tod , the supreme creator , even the creator of god ,, but no noone is going to believe in tod , cause they never believed in god for the Above mentioned reason , ( they are basically lying to you , to me and to themselves )

Stereotype 2.

why do they believe than ,, what is the advantage of believing ?

People have different opinions. Cope.

Fırst of all its comfortable to be ignorant ,, we all have fears , of loosing our health , our loved ones , getting hurt etc , and the Mother of all fears is death , And that's where religion plays it's trick , believe and you will live forever ,, it takes away a bit of the fear doesn't it ?

Not even a stereotype, just sheer bigotry.

Facts : religion has never been about god or bad .but about power and control of people . Otherwise how would you convince a young Arab man to wrap himself in explosieves and go and kill innocent people and himself .

Stereotype 3.

Fact : religion has allways been against science and development .

Stereotype 4.

I think i will stop here .

Well, I can't say as I blame you. It would be nice if you kept your drivel brief in the future.

 

[Evandr]

Oké storm , first of all i gave up on you and evandr , its hopeless discussing With you Guys,
for other people who really want to learn something here are THE facts
Everyone pretends they chose their religion ans they are one hindred procent sure that it is THE right religion , without à doubt , while in fact we follow THE religion just because its been imposed in us .

By definition everyone adheres to some religious conviction even if that conviction denies God and religion all together. You cannot hide from your own social platform (religion) so, what you say cannot have merit nor can you rightfully claim a belief in your own convictions because, according to your own rhetoric, your convictions are born of ideas that have been forced upon you. In other words you have been brainwashed into a conflicting "pro" and "anti" stance so everything you claim is mere shadow without substance, credibility, and logic, nor is it the fodder of intelligence. You are falling all over yourself in a pathetic attempt to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. You are a product of the fear brought on by your own feared ability to see the foolishness of your beliefs, you are frantically scrambling in a failing attempt to shore up the crumbling of your ideological foundation. You are grasping at straws, floundering in a sea of unsupported ideas, a sea of your own making. None of us here are perfect in our intellect and I really like having an intellegent conversation but, with you that cannot happen because it is all too obvious that, in the end, you are destined to have nothing left but to admit and accept what many of us here already see.

 

[mho123]

As i Said storm , i gave up chatting discussing With you .
You are not capable of bringing any issues any facts to discuss instead you are hiding behind immature jokes and personal criticism.
All the proof is there in my forum ,, read ağain and ağain and for once in your life instead of directly attacking the person just ask yourself what if ? What if I am wrong . Just the tiny probably to make you think .
Proof is science , mathematics it's called , ,, read it ,, if you toss a coin 1000 times and you end up more than 900 times with heads that's the proof ( statistical /mathematical) that there is something fishhy going on here .
But then again talking reasoning with brainwashed people are like peddaling against the current .
You can't take it , you can't handle it that you are wrong even when the facts are staring you in the face .and you make me the bad guy
in fact i am in your Side .
Hope one day you Will see it , but its not going to happen here not in this forum .
If you have some honest interest in finding THE truth read THE forum again , i tried to put it as simple as possible .
As i said i gave up discussing With you guys
good luck in your search of thruth , but remember to find THE truth you have to release yourself of all THE prejudicm all THE brainwashing you have gone through for all your life ,, start from zero , and thats not an easy step to take .
I Hope you dare to take that step oneday .
And thats my last message to you .
I hope you THE best , bye

 

[mho123]

By definition everyone adheres to some religious conviction even if that conviction denies God and religion all together. You cannot hide from your own social platform (religion) so, what you say cannot have merit nor can you rightfully claim a belief in your own convictions because, according to your own rhetoric, your convictions are born of ideas that have been forced upon you. In other words you have been brainwashed into a conflicting "pro" and "anti" stance so everything you claim is mere shadow without substance, credibility, and logic, nor is it the fodder of intelligence. You are falling all over yourself in a pathetic attempt to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. You are a product of the fear brought on by your own feared ability to see the foolishness of your beliefs, you are frantically scrambling in a failing attempt to shore up the crumbling of your ideological foundation. You are grasping at straws, floundering in a sea of unsupported ideas, a sea of your own making. None of us here are perfect in our intellect and I really like having an intellegent conversation but, with you that cannot happen because it is all too obvious that, in the end, you are destined to have nothing left but to admit and accept what many of us here already see.

I am not THE subject of discusdion here . THE subject is religion . Start concentratinh on THE subject instead of attacking me . Read THE forum , read THE topic again again , read my last reply to storm ,, THE Same Goes to you , as well .
All THE proof is in THE topic . Any part you didnt understand / you dont agree Talk about it , about the subject .
As i Said my last message to you and storm .
Peace

 

[Evandr]

I am not THE subject of discusdion here . THE subject is religion . Start concentratinh on THE subject instead of attacking me . Read THE forum , read THE topic again again , read my last reply to storm ,, THE Same Goes to you , as well .
All THE proof is in THE topic . Any part you didnt understand / you dont agree Talk about it , about the subject .
As i Said my last message to you and storm .
Peace

Well then, stop telling me I'm the one who is brainwashed or are you the only one allowed to do that. As for proof of the topic you have presented nothing but hollow opinion with an angry tint. When you finally make a point then I'll be happy to discuss it with you, up to now your utterances have been void of any substance that is worthy of discussion.

 

[mho123]

Well then, stop telling me I'm the one who is brainwashed or are you the only one allowed to do that. As for proof of the topic you have presented nothing but hollow opinion with an angry tint. When you finally make a point then I'll be happy to discuss it with you, up to now your utterances have been void of any substance that is worthy of discussion.

My very last attempt :

You choose 1000 greeks , more than 900 is christian , you choose 1000 irakis , more than 900 is moslim .
İf you toss a coin 1000 times and you get more than 900 heads there is something wrong With the coin . Cannot make it any simpler , seriously ,,
Thats scientific , mathematical , statistical proof , if you also dont belive in mathematics cant really help you .
Thats it .
İ give up .
İts up yo you to dare to take the step and start thinking rationally .
For your and our own sake .
As i Said either we have to change this mentality or we are doomed to destroy ourselves .
İ âm out of here
Bye

 

[fantome profane]

My very last attempt :

You choose 1000 greeks , more than 900 is christian , you choose 1000 irakis , more than 900 is moslim .

So why isn’t it 1000? No one is arguing that our geography and upbringing doesn’t play a major role, obviously it does. But it should be equally obvious that it is not the only factor at play.

People do reject the belief systems of their parents and of the society in which they are raised. Obviously some people have freely chosen. I am sure you accept that. But here is the kicker. If you accept the fact that some people have chosen to reject religion, you must accept the possibility that some people have freely chosen to accept their religion.

 

[Evandr]

My very last attempt :

You choose 1000 greeks , more than 900 is christian , you choose 1000 irakis , more than 900 is moslim .
İf you toss a coin 1000 times and you get more than 900 heads there is something wrong With the coin . Cannot make it any simpler , seriously ,,
Thats scientific , mathematical , statistical proof , if you also dont belive in mathematics cant really help you .
Thats it .
İ give up .
İts up yo you to dare to take the step and start thinking rationally .
For your and our own sake .
As i Said either we have to change this mentality or we are doomed to destroy ourselves .
İ âm out of here
Bye

Casn someone tell me what he is trying to prove with what he just said?

 

[Evandr]

You choose 1000 greeks , more than 900 is christian , you choose 1000 irakis , more than 900 is moslim .
İf you toss a coin 1000 times and you get more than 900 heads there is something wrong With the coin . Cannot make it any simpler , seriously ,,
Thats scientific , mathematical , statistical proof , if you also dont belive in mathematics cant really help you .

I think I see what you are trying to say but your comparisons have absolutely no correlation and there is absolutely no basis for statistical analysis in your argument. The randomness of a coin toss and the natural result of a community of people producing offspring with the same values have no connection at all and certainly have no bearing at all on the validity of religious values.



Brainwashing is defined as thus:

1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.
2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.

Even if your thoughts stems from the 2nd definition you are not using it properly. Persuasion requires a starting point of intelligence and children have none, they are a blank slate upon which a starting point must be developed by the parent and/or society.

Why is it so odd to you that a Christian society will turn out Christian children or Muslims for Muslims or Buddhists for Buddhists, etc.?

I was born into an LDS family but I never considered myself “brainwashed”. Someone who does not question their own upbringing is either indifferent toward it or they fear what they might find, I was neither. I was taught the traditions of my fathers and have since put those traditions to task and discovered for myself the wisdom therein. That is not the result of brainwashing. To fear teaching your children and/or leaving them to discover everything for themselves is both foolish and uncaring. Such children will be taught by society or they will be children of the jungle learning nothing.

You have tried to disprove the wisdom in religion using detached correlations which are so obvious to many in RF that it is no wonder that you have been met with such intense opposition, you insult our intelligence.

 

[Storm]

As i Said storm , i gave up chatting discussing With you .

Yet, you keep talking.

You are not capable of bringing any issues any facts to discuss

:biglaugh: You have no idea what I'm capable of. :biglaugh:

I brought perfectly relevant facts up, which you dismissed as "religious proaganda" because they dared not to conform to your blind hatred of all things religious. Why would I waste time and effort bringing more?

instead you are hiding behind immature jokes and personal criticism.

I'm not hiding behind anything. I tried to engage you in a productive discussion. I was perfectly civiil until you started acting like a Young Earth Creationist. I have no respect for such tactics, and see no reason to treat you as anything more than a plaything. If you don't like it, work on yourself.

All the proof is there in my forum

1) It's not YOUR forum. It's ours.
2) You haven't presented anything resembling proof. You've hidden behind your own bigotry to avoid the frightening possibility of having your own mind opened.

,, read ağain and ağain and for once in your life instead of directly attacking the person just ask yourself what if ? What if I am wrong . Just the tiny probably to make you think .

Dude, you don't know me. Second only to my belief that God exists is my belief that none of us knows what the hell that means, myself included.

Ask LuisDantas, mball, or FatherHeathen how afraid I am of criticism. They're all atheists who I invited to critique my theology, because they earned my respect. I have many atheist friends with whom I have delightful discussions. I laugh out loud reading Jesus & Mo.

But then again talking reasoning with brainwashed people are like peddaling against the current .

Again, the only one here who sounds brainwashed is you.

You can't take it , you can't handle it that you are wrong even when the facts are staring you in the face .and you make me the bad guy

Wrong again. I can take criticism. I just have no respect for pretentious bigots.

in fact i am in your Side .

No, you're not.

 

[mho123]

So why isn’t it 1000? No one is arguing that our geography and upbringing doesn’t play a major role, obviously it does. But it should be equally obvious that it is not the only factor at play.

People do reject the belief systems of their parents and of the society in which they are raised. Obviously some people have freely chosen. I am sure you accept that. But here is the kicker. If you accept the fact that some people have chosen to reject religion, you must accept the possibility that some people have freely chosen to accept their religion.

Hi phantom
ofcourse there are some people that geniunly have Chosen to believe ,, tried to learn and make a sensible choice , totally agree , a few minority .
All i âm trying to say is more than 90 procent didnt = With other woords more than 90 procent have been indoctrinated ( some people reject me using the woords brainwashed, but i choose My woords as best as i can With My Limited kniwledge of english ) do you agree ?
Can we say that more than 90% of religious people are indoctrinated ?. İs it safe to say that a huge majority of people think they made the right choice whilst they have no idea that they never had any choice ?
basically it all comes down to free choice . And for me it is mind blowing to see more than 90 % of the world population dont know what they are talking about but are totally convinced they made the right choice .
We are talking about , what ? Almost 6 billion people ? İf that is not an issue , i font know what is ?
Did you ever consider the consequences of this ?
İ mean this just one aspect of it .
İf you would diğ deeper and ask the question who is right ? Than it gets even more messy.
If you read above examples I tried to give( basically trying to simply the problem with these examples) I was talking about mr x from country x believing in religionx . Thinks he is right . Mr y country y etc etc thinks he is right ,, well who is right ? Is it possible that they both are ? Is it possible to be moslim and Christian at the same time ? Absolutely not .
Then there can only be one right .
Well here is another trick question , since non of the religion are bigger than a quarter of the world population , even if the biggest religion ( whatever it is ) is right then the rest is WRONG . Just simple calculations . So does this prove that at least three quarters of the world population is full of buxxxshnnn? That's the proof isn't it ?

 

[nonreligiouschristian]

Is it true that religion is passe and that we should stop believing in god ?

You do not have to stop believing in GOD to stop following religion.

I am a Non Religious Christian.

I quit following religion years ago, Religion is the main cause of most
of the ills of the human race.

I have never turned my back on GOD though and never will.

I believe in GOD, Follow Christ, and read the bible to proove everything
else that I read although I nolonger concider the bible we have today
to be infalable, It has been translated too many times by too many people
who were trying to further their own interests.

God never created religion, man did.

There is no true religion but there is a true path to GOD.

Research and pray for guidence he will lead you to the true path.

 

[mho123]

You do not have to stop believing in GOD to stop following religion.

I am a Non Religious Christian.

I quit following religion years ago, Religion is the main cause of most
of the ills of the human race.

I have never turned my back on GOD though and never will.

I believe in GOD, Follow Christ, and read the bible to proove everything
else that I read although I nolonger concider the bible we have today
to be infalable, It has been translated too many times by too many people
who were trying to further their own interests.

God never created religion, man did.

There is no true religion but there is a true path to GOD.

Research and pray for guidence he will lead you to the true path.

may i ask why you believe there is God ?
Who says there is ? As far as i know God is à product of man , isnt it ,?vWhat is THE reason to make you believe that there is à God ? Why do you believe ? From personal experience ?
I am not criticising ( may sound like that because of my poor englush , i appologise )
i wish to understand what convinces people like you to believe . If you read my topic you have seen that i am irritated by THE people who follow their group and then pretend to be geniune .
As far as i understand you just believe in God but not Interested in THE rest ? Why , may i ask ?
Btw i am trying to keep up in With this on my mobile so can take some time before you get THE NeXT reply , and i live on cet time .
Thanks

 

[mho123]

Today no forum ,
holland - Uruguay ,
sorry

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

in light of your admitted limitations in the english language, i think it's important that definitive terms be established.

please define the following words, mho123:
god.
religion.
brainwash.
science.

thanks, although tedious, this will significantly benefit further conversation.

 

[mho123]

Dear yourhopeboundheart ,
I gave up on discussing in this forum / topic .
I am not going to post any answers / comments anymore .
It costs me too much time / effort . Can't keep it up .
Good luck in your search .
Peace

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Dear yourhopeboundheart ,
I gave up on discussing in this forum / topic .
I am not going to post any answers / comments anymore .
It costs me too much time / effort . Can't keep it up .
Good luck in your search .
Peace

how convenient...

 

[mho123]

how convenient...

If you are implying that i am avoiding discussion thats not true .
I am just tired of people coming here With an agenda . Not to discuss but just to convert people to their beliefs .
I learned my lesson ( read my topic ) , there is No way to discuss With brainwashed people .
THE proof is in THE text read it think about it , if you are willibg to learn i Hope it helps if not , well as i said no point in having à debate , Will not change anything .
I gave THE simplest examples i can . I gave simplest examples I can , it's just mathematics . If that doesn't proove it don't know what will .
If you don't know those terms use a dictionary .
If you have any questions , anything that was not clear ask straight questions and you get straight answers .
But I am not going to spend hours here having a "so called " debate with someone who doesn't use any logic , no common sense , no reasoning( = hence the term brainwashed ,) has no intention to learn anything and is only here to make religious propaganda .
Don't waste my time and don't waste your life .
Again if you really have questions set them in the topic and every once in a while I will check it and try to answer it .
Take care and hope you have the courage to take the step to free your mind of this disease .
Good luck

 

[nonreligiouschristian]

may i ask why you believe there is God ?
Who says there is ? As far as i know God is à product of man , isnt it ,?vWhat is THE reason to make you believe that there is à God ? Why do you believe ? From personal experience ?
I am not criticising ( may sound like that because of my poor englush , i appologise )
i wish to understand what convinces people like you to believe . If you read my topic you have seen that i am irritated by THE people who follow their group and then pretend to be geniune .
As far as i understand you just believe in God but not Interested in THE rest ? Why , may i ask ?
Btw i am trying to keep up in With this on my mobile so can take some time before you get THE NeXT reply , and i live on cet time .
Thanks

I believe because Hes real, I don't need proof of that any more than I need proof that my daughter is real.
As far as following the group and being genuine, I follow no group.
That is why I concider my self a non religious Christian, I dont follow the christian group I follow Christ, my christianity is from christ not the organized christian religion or church.
As far as being genuine, I have made no claimes of being the genuine or true way. There is only one genuine way or true way, that is Christ.
I do believe in GOD, He and Christ are as real to me as my family.
What I am not interested in is the Cerimonys, Liturgys, Holidays, Letter of the law, Idol worship, hatred and false teachings that go with modern organized christianity.
Christ did not teach Church Buildings, Organization, Cerimony or any of that stuff.
What I am interested in is what Christ taught, Life, Love, Service, Charity, Truth.
Christ did not start a religion or church, He taught the true way to live,
He taught us how to be an everyday family not a once a week congregation.
In all of this I still have not answered your first question, Why do I believe.
I guess the reason that question is so difficult for people to answer is due to the fact that believe is the wrong word.
I do not believe in GOD, I know GOD personaly.
I do not follow a group nor do I wish to start a group or teach others.
I do not want people to believe what I believe or to think that what I believe is the correct way to go.
What I want is to learn as much as I can about what Christ taught while I still have enough life left to learn, I want to live that life to the best of my ability as an example that others can see. then they can decide themselvs whether I am crazy, Heretical, delusional, or what ever term they choose for me.
If someone agrees with the way I live I will discuss it with them if they wish, I wont if they dont wish.
If some one disagrees with me that is their right and I will defend their right to disagree with me.
When I was young I was forced into religion, before that I already knew
GOD, no one taught me I just knew.
After I was forced into religion I learned the DIFFERENCE between GOD and religion.
I then left religion but stayed in the relationship with GOD.
Lastly you do not need to apologize, I do not feel like you were criticizing me.
Most people find it hard to understand my relationship with GOD, Most christians would prefer to hang me for heresy.
And all of this is due to the fact that most people equate GOD, and Jesus with religion as though they are all the same thing, They are not the same thing.