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Regarding the 7 Heavens

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I stumbled upon this video and found it to be very powerful nd wonderful to listen to, but I have a question regarding towards the end of the video around 9:00. I thought the 7 heavens related to Jannah and not necessarily the material plane of existence?

See video here:
 
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Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Hi EBM, Paradise and Hell themselves have levels, Paradise has 7 levels where the highest level is Al Firdaws, this is where the Prophets and Martyrs will be and anyone else that Allah allows, while in hell the deeper the level the more severe the punishment and Iblis-Satan will be on the lowest part and whoever else Allah wills.

But there are also 7 heavens or 7 universes in existence where we live on the lowest one and Paradise is on the seventh.
 

Asiya Lisa

Remember God & He will Remember you
Peace to you, the night sky we see is contained within the first level of heaven beyond that we cannot even comprehend. =) However, as Gharib [salam alaykom!] said, Jannah [paradise] and Jahhanam [ hellfire] are also additionally described with levels too. I think that even what little we do know, even the most advanced, high IQ mind, can never comprehend the creation in its greatness, complexity, & diversity. I think there are lessons in what surrounds us, and the thoughts that we have. We are so limited. We can not know everything, which is why we have to be humble before God, and why we have to acknowledge that much of reality is hidden from us. There are signs of that all around us, science has worked to lift some of the mysteries, but cannot adequately explain everything, cannot comprehend, or test scientifically everything that we do understand, see, do etc. The most advanced minds cannot ever fully comprehend all things. but god can, and does. The creation extends beyond our ability to see. I find that a powerful reminder of how limited we are, and how much we are in need of God. =)
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Hi EBM, Paradise and Hell themselves have levels, Paradise has 7 levels where the highest level is Al Firdaws, this is where the Prophets and Martyrs will be and anyone else that Allah allows, while in hell the deeper the level the more severe the punishment and Iblis-Satan will be on the lowest part and whoever else Allah wills.

But there are also 7 heavens or 7 universes in existence where we live on the lowest one and Paradise is on the seventh.

Let me understand you correctly....

There are 7 levels of paradise and 7 levels of hell (the hereafter) just as the are seven levels in the universe the material plane and in the seventh there is paradise? I'm a bit confused because scientifically this universe is infinitely expanding. Since the earth is infinitely expanding as the video implies if we are travelling it would take 500 years from one level to the next. I get it the idea. However even if it were possible how does one travel in the material plane of existence and reach paradise in the material existence when paradise exists in the hereafter?

For example let's just say I build a space ship that can last in the universe for thousands of years and I am able to go into cryostasis for that time are you telling me I can reach the hereafter even while existing in the material plane?

This just means I would have to go faster than the universe's expansion. This is confusing.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
My point is if the throne of Allah exists in the hereafter, how do I reach the throne of Allah in the material plane/ That is my point or perhaps this could be symbolic...
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
My point is if the throne of Allah exists in the hereafter, how do I reach the throne of Allah in the material plane/ That is my point or perhaps this could be symbolic...

It is symbolic, the distance of 500 years is not specified at what speed as the speaker says, and it is not possible for us to go to any of the other 'universes'. It's just an example to make us understand what's there and how it is.

Hope that makes sense.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
It is symbolic, the distance of 500 years is not specified at what speed as the speaker says, and it is not possible for us to go to any of the other 'universes'. It's just an example to make us understand what's there and how it is.

Hope that makes sense.

It really doesn't make any sense. I need examples as the one I did. It just doesn't make sense to me. There are 7 heavens in this material plane and somehow if I get to the seventh I'm at the throne of God when the Throne is said to be in the hereafter? It doesn't logically make sense. that is why I need actual examples not conjecture. In this thread it was said there are seven heavens here, and there are seven heavens in the hereafter. Okay I understand the 7 heavens in the hereafter, but what I don't understand is the 7 heavens in this material plane. Then, according to the video it states (at least as you guys have explained it) if I reach the seventh heaven on this material plane then I'll reach the throne of God. How can a material being then reach the throne of God when the throne is supposed to be in the hereafter? See how it does not make sense?
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Peace to you, the night sky we see is contained within the first level of heaven beyond that we cannot even comprehend. =) However, as Gharib [salam alaykom!] said, Jannah [paradise] and Jahhanam [ hellfire] are also additionally described with levels too. I think that even what little we do know, even the most advanced, high IQ mind, can never comprehend the creation in its greatness, complexity, & diversity. I think there are lessons in what surrounds us, and the thoughts that we have. We are so limited. We can not know everything, which is why we have to be humble before God, and why we have to acknowledge that much of reality is hidden from us. There are signs of that all around us, science has worked to lift some of the mysteries, but cannot adequately explain everything, cannot comprehend, or test scientifically everything that we do understand, see, do etc. The most advanced minds cannot ever fully comprehend all things. but god can, and does. The creation extends beyond our ability to see. I find that a powerful reminder of how limited we are, and how much we are in need of God. =)


Look, I understand but what is kind of frustrating is if people don't know, they really shouldn't try to explain it because it only confuses the person asking the question. I can understand if someone said "The throne of God is infinitely far" I can conceive that the throne is unreachable unless God allowed me to reach it. but Gharib said:

"But there are also 7 heavens or 7 universes in existence where we live on the lowest one and Paradise is on the seventh."

THIS IS CONFUSING.
 

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
I read a saying by a scholar that may be relevant to this discussion.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

"The salaf, the imams and all the scholars of the Sunnah, when they say that He is above the Throne, He is in heaven above all things, do not mean that there is something which contains Him or surrounds Him, or that He has a location, or that there is something that encompasses Him. Exalted be He above that. Rather He is above all things, He has no need of all things, and all things are in need of Him. He is above all things, He is the One Who carries the Throne and its bearers by His power and might. All created beings are in need of Him, but He has no need of the Throne or of any created being.

With regard to what it says in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, “Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven [fi’l-sama’]…?” [al-Mulk 67:16] and so on, some people may understand the word heaven as being the same as the created heaven on high or the Throne and what is beneath it, so they say that His words “in heaven (fi’l-sama’)” mean that He is above the heaven, as the words “and I will surely, crucify you on the trunks of date palms [fi judhoo’ al-nakhl]” [Ta-Ha 20:71] mean on the trunks of date palms, and the words “So travel freely (O Mushrikoon — see V.2:105) for four months (as you will) throughout the land[ fi’l-ard]” [al-Tawbah 9:2] mean on the land.

There is no need for that; rather the word sama’ (often translated as heaven) refers to what is up high, and does not apply to any specific thing. So the words fi’l-sama’[translated above as ‘in heaven’] apply to that which is up high as opposed to being low or down.

He is high and the highest, and He is the Highest of the high; there is nothing beyond the Most High, may He be glorified and exalted."
 
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