Regarding Knight and Itwillend

[Poisonshady313]

You stated that a jew who no longer practices man made rabbinical judaism is not to be treated jewish anylonger.

There's a difference between "no longer practicing" Judaism and actively practicing a different religion altogether. And I'm pretty sure Harmonious pointed out that difference.

and by now you should know and understand that we believe Rabbinical Judaism is not man made, but that the Torah establishes a tradition of teachers and judges. (While all Rabbis are teachers, some Rabbis are judges)

And the fact is, if a Jew by birth converts to Hinduism, he will not be counted in a Jewish congregation. That's not bigoted.

 

[gwk230]

There's a difference between "no longer practicing" Judaism and actively practicing a different religion altogether. And I'm pretty sure Harmonious pointed out that difference.

Oh profusely, but just because they are practicing another religion doesn't make them any less jewish nor does it call for bigoted hatred and ridicule from those who think their way of understanding is above that of anyone elses.

and by now you should know and understand that we believe Rabbinical Judaism is not man made,

LOL. And that makes it fact? LOL. Duh Huh!

but that the Torah establishes a tradition of teachers and judges. (While all Rabbis are teachers, some Rabbis are judges)

As I understand it "moreh" is a teacher while "rabbi" means "master" as the jews look at it as "master teacher" but "moreh" is teacher. I have only one "Rabbi" as I do not put my trust in the hands of those that look after puffed up titles and such but you are welcome to do as you wish.

And the fact is, if a Jew by birth converts to Hinduism, he will not be counted in a Jewish congregation. That's not bigoted.

No, if ones leaves judaism to be whatever I wouldn't expect to count them in judaism but again to treat one as not being of the blood in which he was born is bigoted. To put ones understanding above another is bigoted. Heck I can be the biggest bigot here but I do not hate those that understand differently than I. I just hate those who hat those that understand differently than them.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Oh profusely, but just because they are practicing another religion doesn't make them any less jewish nor does it call for bigoted hatred and ridicule from those who think their way of understanding is above that of anyone elses.

One doesn't have to hate non-Jews to tell when someone is a non-Jew... or when a Jew is acting like a non-Jew, and therefore is considered as a non-Jew.

As I understand it "moreh" is a teacher while "rabbi" means "master" as the jews look at it as "master teacher" but "moreh" is teacher. I have only one "Rabbi" as I do not put my trust in the hands of those that look after puffed up titles and such but you are welcome to do as you wish.

You'd rather make things up as you go along, rather than learn from people who have been learning their whole lives an unwritten tradition that has been passed down since Moses at Sinai. They don't look after puffed up titles. They look after the Torah.

No, if ones leaves judaism to be whatever I wouldn't expect to count them in judaism but again to treat one as not being of the blood in which he was born is bigoted.

You just contradicted yourself. Either you count them, or you don't.

To put ones understanding above another is bigoted.

To know that A is not equal to B is not bigoted. To point it out is not bigoted.

Heck I can be the biggest bigot here but I do not hate those that understand differently than I.

Neither do I. Neither does Harmonious.

I don't hate anybody that doesn't understand Judaism.... I just won't pretend like they do understand Judaism just because they claim to.

I just hate those who hat those that understand differently than them.

When those people show up, be sure to point them out to us. I don't want to be around people who hate those that understand differently than them.

 

[TheKnight]

No, if ones leaves judaism to be whatever I wouldn't expect to count them in judaism but again to treat one as not being of the blood in which he was born is bigoted.

What makes a Jew a Jew if he does not identify with Jewishness, with Jewish heritage, with Jewish tradition, with Jewish anything? I'd rather a Jew be a Jew and act like a Jew than to be a Jew and act like a non-Jew.

And if you act like a non-Jew, why not be treated like a non-Jew? Look like a duck, talk like a duck, walk like a duck, must be a duck.

 

[Mr Cheese]

What makes a Jew a Jew if he does not identify with Jewishness, with Jewish heritage, with Jewish tradition, with Jewish anything? I'd rather a Jew be a Jew and act like a Jew than to be a Jew and act like a non-Jew.

And if you act like a non-Jew, why not be treated like a non-Jew? Look like a duck, talk like a duck, walk like a duck, must be a duck.

Yes but you're not a Jew by your own admittance

Unless I am wrong

 

[gwk230]

One doesn't have to hate non-Jews to tell when someone is a non-Jew... or when a Jew is acting like a non-Jew, and therefore is considered as a non-Jew.

Everything just stated is o.k. by me up until you state that one who acts like a non-jew is considered non-jew. Who would ever consider a jew a non-jew is showing bigotry in the fact that just because one acts differently than your perception of the stereotype of a jew does not make them any less jewish. They were born that way and will always be that way unless you do not believe that jewish people are not a race or ethnicity?

You'd rather make things up as you go along, rather than learn from people who have been learning their whole lives an unwritten tradition that has been passed down since Moses at Sinai.

Prove it. There is not one shred of evidence that there was a unwritten tradition handed down from Yah Elohim through Moshe at Mt. Sinai. It’s all conjecture and dreamed up traditions of men plain and simple. And you would rather believe such garbage from those who have studied such lies and deceit their whole lives.

They don't look after puffed up titles.

Yes they do.

They look after the Torah.

Their own twisted traditional version of it maybe.

You just contradicted yourself. Either you count them, or you don't.

No I did not. It is my understanding that “judaism” is a manmade religion and concept and not a race or ethnicity. A born jew who no longer follows or accepts that concept and would even go as far as to accepting and following another concept as in a jewish christian, jewish morman, jewish jehovah witness, jewish hindu, jewish budist, jewish muslim, messianic jew or even a karate jew would not make themselves any less jewish. To treat one as so stated as less jewish is of my understanding bigotry plain and simple.

To know that A is not equal to B is not bigoted. To point it out is not bigoted.

Of course not but when “A” is born an “A” then to treat the “A” as a “B” is bigoted.

Neither do I. Neither does Harmonious.

Your actions here thus far say differently.

I don't hate anybody that doesn't understand Judaism.... I just won't pretend like they do understand Judaism just because they claim to.

That is fine. I haven’t a problem with that whatsoever. Just stop treating a jew and non-jew just because they don’t understand things as you do. To do so is a form of hatred and is very bigoted.

When those people show up, be sure to point them out to us. I don't want to be around people who hate those that understand differently than them.

If you are one that treat people differently than what they were in fact born as because they understand differently then look in the mirror. Might be a hard thing not to be around yourself.

 

[gwk230]

What makes a Jew a Jew if he does not identify with Jewishness, with Jewish heritage, with Jewish tradition, with Jewish anything? I'd rather a Jew be a Jew and act like a Jew than to be a Jew and act like a non-Jew.

And if you act like a non-Jew, why not be treated like a non-Jew? Look like a duck, talk like a duck, walk like a duck, must be a duck.

Because it is simply bigoted, and flirts with being racist also, to treat someone different because of their understanding as to their linage. If one has been born as to jewish ethnicity then they will continue to be jewish until the day that they die no matter what they believe or how they choose to act. To treat them otherwise is a perfect example of bigotry. One can look at another and call them, or think of them, whatever floats their boat but it will never make them any less then what they were born as.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Everything just stated is o.k. by me up until you state that one who acts like a non-jew is considered non-jew. Who would ever consider a jew a non-jew is showing bigotry in the fact that just because one acts differently than your perception of the stereotype of a jew does not make them any less jewish.

It has nothing to do with acting differently than a perception of a stereotype, and everything to do with violating the laws of the Torah that deal with not worshiping other gods. When one does this, it is most natural, and not bigoted, to point out that they have adopted the beliefs of a non-Jewish faith, and the actions they perform would be grounded in a non-Jewish context because of their new found beliefs.

They were born that way and will always be that way unless you do not believe that jewish people are not a race or ethnicity?

Having been born Jewish means that when one breaks away from his Judaism, coming back doesn't require a full conversion... it requires only repentance. But a born Jew who becomes a Christian... I cannot assume that the food prepared in his home is kosher, and I cannot count him as part of a minyan (the quorum required for certain religious obligations.)

Prove it. There is not one shred of evidence that there was a unwritten tradition handed down from Yah Elohim through Moshe at Mt. Sinai.

It's clear from the text of the Torah itself. You obviously don't see it that way, so I'm not going to waste my time providing verses that I know to prove my point which you will tell me I'm lying about.

No I did not. It is my understanding that “judaism” is a manmade religion and concept and not a race or ethnicity. A born jew who no longer follows or accepts that concept and would even go as far as to accepting and following another concept as in a jewish christian, jewish morman, jewish jehovah witness, jewish hindu, jewish budist, jewish muslim, messianic jew or even a karate jew would not make themselves any less jewish.

You just contradicted yourself. If Judaism is a manmade religion, how could anybody be a Jewish Mormon? Wouldn't they be one or the other?

In other words, if you believe that Judaism is a manmade religion, then in your view there is no such thing as a 'born Jew'

To treat one as so stated as less jewish is of my understanding bigotry plain and simple.

You're wrong. Mormons and Muslims aren't counted as part of a minyan in prayer services.... and neither are those who are born Jewish that become Mormons and Muslims.

Of course not but when “A” is born an “A” then to treat the “A” as a “B” is bigoted.

Not if A walks, talks, and acts like B.

Your actions here thus far say differently.

I disagree.

That is fine. I haven’t a problem with that whatsoever. Just stop treating a jew and non-jew just because they don’t understand things as you do.

I don't. You keep telling us we do... but we don't.

There's a world of difference between not understanding things as I do, and actually adhering to a faith that is not Jewish.

A hindu is a non-Jew. Not because a hindu understands differently.... but because Hinduism isn't Judaism.

 

[TheKnight]

Yes but you're not a Jew by your own admittance

Unless I am wrong

I am not a Jew. My mother is not a Jew and I have not halakhically converted to Judaism.

Because it is simply bigoted, and flirts with being racist also, to treat someone different because of their understanding as to their linage. If one has been born as to jewish ethnicity then they will continue to be jewish until the day that they die no matter what they believe or how they choose to act. To treat them otherwise is a perfect example of bigotry. One can look at another and call them, or think of them, whatever floats their boat but it will never make them any less then what they were born as.

They are and will always be Jews. However, why should they be treated like religious Jews if they aren't a religious Jew?

 

[gwk230]

It has nothing to do with acting differently than a perception of a stereotype

It is my understanding that it has everything to do with it.

and everything to do with violating the laws of the Torah that deal with not worshiping other gods. When one does this, it is most natural, and not bigoted, to point out that they have adopted the beliefs of a non-Jewish faith, and the actions they perform would be grounded in a non-Jewish context because of their new found beliefs.

LOL. You act like the Hebrew Yisraelites are perfect and never had any other belief. Even the Tanach doesn’t treat jews differently by calling them something other than jews when they do commit spiritual idolatry and run after other elohim. The Tanach still calls them jews. They just don’t follow the Torah.

Having been born Jewish means that when one breaks away from his Judaism, coming back doesn't require a full conversion... it requires only repentance. But a born Jew who becomes a Christian... I cannot assume that the food prepared in his home is kosher, and I cannot count him as part of a minyan (the quorum required for certain religious obligations.)

So? What has all this have to do with the jewish blood running through that ones veins? Not a dang thang. What? Would you have us believe that just because a born jew believes in something other than judaism that their blood somehow changes inside their bodies and they are no longer jews? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What a joke.

It's clear from the text of the Torah itself. You obviously don't see it that way, so I'm not going to waste my time providing verses that I know to prove my point which you will tell me I'm lying about.

How convenient. I doubt you can show us what hasn’t already been dismissed for lack of understanding on the part of those who follow manmade beliefs and not the written word of Elohim. Oh but you’re welcome to try.

You just contradicted yourself.

Again, no I have not.

If Judaism is a manmade religion, how could anybody be a Jewish Mormon? Wouldn't they be one or the other? In other words, if you believe that Judaism is a manmade religion, then in your view there is no such thing as a 'born Jew'

Not true. A jewish mormon is a born jew who believes in the manmade religion of mormonism just like a jew who believes in the manmade religion of judaism is judaic.

You're wrong.

Not to my understanding and you’re not doing so well in proving otherwise.

Mormons and Muslims aren't counted as part of a minyan in prayer services.... and neither are those who are born Jewish that become Mormons and Muslims.

Yet again, what on earth has any of this to do with the jewish blood running through their veins?

Not if A walks, talks, and acts like B.

One thing you didn’t mention. They still look like “A” and there is blood and DNA proof that shows that “A” is “A”. No matter what “A” walks, talks or acts like, “A” is still “A” and to call them “B” is still “BIGOTED”!!!!!!!

I disagree.

Of course you do. Your actions have spoken volumes as to the hatred and bigotry thus expressed here toward those jewish born individuals that have seen their true path outside of the thoughts and feelings of traditional rabbinical judaism.

I don't. You keep telling us we do... but we don't.

Yes you do or you wouldn’t make such the bigoted statement as this………..

A hindu is a non-Jew. Not because a hindu understands differently....

If a hindu just happens to be jewish then they are a jew who just happens to believe in hinduism.

but because Hinduism isn't Judaism.

Get outta-here! Really?

There's a world of difference between not understanding things as I do, and actually adhering to a faith that is not Jewish.

A born jewish person can have thousands of different understandings of other religions and ways of life other than you and can adhere to and have faith in them as well. It still doesn’t make them any less a jew.

Just in case I have misunderstood your understanding, being you haven’t enlightened us thus far one way or the other, I need to ask you a question.

Do you not look at jews as being a race/ethnicity? I mean, all that you have thus stated goes very much hand in hand with one who does not believe in a jewish race/ethnicity. I could somewhat understand your position if you were one that didn’t believe that there could be anyone with proven blood or DNA of being of the jewish race/ethnicity. It would make sense that all that claim to be jew are just saying it because they believe one way or another but in reality there would have been no way that one who claimed such could have been born into the jewish race/ethnicity because there is no such thing as to your understanding.

That is the only way your statements float poison. You don’t believe in a jewish race/ethnicity right?

 

[gwk230]

They are and will always be Jews. However, why should they be treated like religious Jews if they aren't a religious Jew?

You are correct and I agree completely that a jewish born individual will always be a jew and they could also always be religious if they so choose. As hard as it is for those of one understanding to admit and say otherwise, which btw is bigoted, there is more than one manmade religion in the world other than that manmade religion of judaism. One can be jewish and be as religious as their understanding will allow them. Only if a jew who did not practice any form of religion would one be considered a non-religious jew. If they just don’t believe in judaism one would have to consider them as a non-judaic jew. But again I do agree with the fact that a born jew will always be a jew.