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Record numbers of Americans are fleeing to Canada

Alceste

Vagabond
In the universal health care thread, I invited Americans who can not get insurance for their families to move to Canada. I've just learned I'm not the first to think of it:

The Number of Americans Moving to Canada in 2006 Hit a 30-Year High

The number of U.S. citizens who moved to Canada last year hit a 30-year high, with a 20 percent increase over the previous year and almost double the number who moved in 2000.

"There has been a definite increase in the past five years — the number hasn't exceeded 10,000 since 1977," says Jack Jedwab, the association's executive director. "During the mid-70s, Canada admitted between 22,000 and 26,000 Americans a year, most of whom were draft dodgers from the Vietnam War."


The current increase appears to be fueled largely by social and political reasons, says Jedwab, based on anecdotal evidence.


"Those who are coming have the highest level of education — these aren't people who can't get a job in the states," he says. "They're coming because many of them don't like the politics, the Iraq War and the security situation in the U.S. By comparison, Canada is a tension-free place. People feel safer."

abc news

And here's a great quiz from Slate to determine whether you would fit in:

There are great reasons, beyond frostbite and pink currency, to seriously consider relocation to the Great White. But still, Canada is still not for everyone. So here's a quiz, for those of you still considering joining the Bush-dodgers relocating to Canada. It isn't about loonies or toonies or socialized medicine. It's about the important stuff—stuff that will determine whether you really want to be a Canadian or just dress like one:

1) Do you like to shoot people? Circle one: yes / no


(If you answered "yes" you should know that there is no Second Amendment or equivalent thereof in the Canadian constitution. Perhaps as a consequence only 22 percent of Canadians own guns as opposed to 49 percent of Americans, while handguns and assault rifles are verboten.Perhaps related to that statistic, the violent crime rate in Canada is 10 times lower than in the United States. This may have no connection to guns, though, and rather a strong correlation to general mellowness of the Canadian temperament. (See Question 3, below.)

2) Have you recently shot someone? Circle one: yes / no


(If you answered yes, you may find Canada appealing. The Canadian courts abolished capital punishment in the '70s, and Canada hasn't seen an execution since 1962. Texas hasn't seen one since about 11 seconds ago.)

3) Do you like to smoke pot? Circle one: yes / no / only for medicinal reasons / only with John Ashcroft

(Judges in at least three provinces have now decriminalized marijuana possession and the federal government is considering decriminalizing it in small quantities. We are advised that the feds alsogrow great masses of it in large underground caverns and may soonexpand the use of these caverns as shelters towhich the entire country would retreat in the event of a terrorist attack or to spur mass-munchies in case of a national Doritos glut. And only in Canada would you find marijuana advocates genuinely arguing that people actually drive better stoned.)

4) Are you covered in vast quantities of coarse, black fur? Circle one: yes / no

(Don't kid yourself. It is freakin' cold up there. While 90 percent of Canadians live within 100 miles of the U.S. border, the places they live north of are Green Bay and Buffalo.)

5) Do you like to wear white sneakers (Canadians call these "running shoes") with jeans? Circle one: yes / no


(Canadians are an extraordinarily stylish people, without the excess snobbery of Europeans; and most of them manifest this by being strikingly well-shod. Canadians generally find themselves perplexed by shiny tracksuits, leggings, baseball caps, and sweaters with reindeer on them.)

6) Do you generally find being alive to be just fine? Circle one: yes / no


(For some reason Canadians seem to live longer, be healthier, and pay less for these privileges. It has something to do with national health insurance, adequate primary care, particularly for children, and the availability of quality prescription drugs. (See, e.g., Question 3, above.)

7) Are you gay, or, alternatively, do you suspect that the institution of marriage should be open to all couples who are committed to living together and/or raising children in a loving environment? Circle one: yes / no

(Six and possibly soon seven Canadian provinces currently permit gay marriage. Before leaving office last year, Prime Minister Jean Chretien referred the question of the constitutionality of same-sex marriage to the Supreme Court for an opinion. The court hasn't yet decided the question.)

8) Are your political views either too complicated to be expressed in two-word bumper stickers, or, alternatively, do you find that you just don't much care about your neighbors' views on guns/the unborn/or which deity is their copilot?
Circle one: yes / no


(Canadians tend to subscribe to a live-and-let-live view of political ideology. It's not that Canadians don't care about their politics or moral issues. It's simply that they appear to operate under the assumption that, whatever their personal beliefs might be, you, their neighbor, may not care all that much to learn every detail of them on the way to the 7-Eleven. As a consequence, T-shirts in Canada are still funny, signage is still commercial, and bumpers are reserved for smashing into telephone poles after cottage parties. [Cottage: Def. Sprawling lakefront estate in rural Canada, quaintly Hamptonesque but with indoor plumbing optional.])

9) Are you bored to death of razor-thin margins between radical ideologues in every aspect of public life? Circle one: yes / no

(The 5-4 split on the Canadian Supreme Court is male/female as opposed to crazy/crazier.)

10) Does the idea of pluralism appeal to you? Not just in the sense that I-want-to-be-surrounded-by-lots-of-diverse-and-fascinating-people-who-all-worship-my-Lord, but rather, in the sense, that a country is a richer place for competing values, religions and cultures? Circle one: yes / no

(When Canadians talk about "multiculturalism," it doesn't only mean they're for blondes hanging out with redheads. Canadian TV shows actually teem with racially diverse characters, and the major national catalogs have been known to feature models in wheelchairs. Moreover, Canada has not one but two official languages, and no one seems to be suffering for it. Indeed, some believe it makes them sort of interesting. Certainly it will be interesting when the thousands of Bush-dodgers someday return to the United Statesto visit relativesand amuse them by explaining that the Teton Mountains actually mean "big boobies" in French.)


(Granted, the quiz is 4 years old. The gay marriage thing is now nationwide)
 

oldcajun

__BE REAL
If it's all liberals moving to Canada, then adios. Hope you stay there. You never were patriotic anyway.
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Honestly the quotes in the abc article are not very reliable as information worth anything. Anecdotal evidence. Stating that those crossing hold the highest level of education.

This sounds like pure propagandistic hogwash that serves nothing in the debate over U.S. Health Care.

As well, considering a nation with a population of over 300 million and large numbers of immigrants the number of Americans, less than 30,000, is not very impressive. There are far, far more Americans who believe Sylvia Browne is the real deal.

Honestly, I find these assertions that people flee because George Bush stole your freedoms to be the height of imbecility. It only reveals those individuals who do indeed deserve the label of liberal pantywaste for they completely ignore the reality of what the majority of politicians have done to our rights.

The story reveals nothing worthwhile.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
I've actually met a large number of Americans living overseas in other countries such as Peru, South Korea, China, Vietnam, and parts of Africa who say that they have fled the United States and never plan to go back (even if Obama's elected). These are all university-educated persons of varying political affiliations who think that the United States, despite giving lip service to freedom, is one of the world's greatest oppressors of all time. Whether that last claim is true or not is certainly debatable (it's hard to compete with ancient Babylon). But it speaks to the existence of a large undercurrent of discontent about the political and social direction of American society. And it's gotta be bad if they prefer Vietnam (in two cases that I know of) to America.

Gnomon has a point, of course, that the overall number isn't high statistically. But of the 300,000,000 Americans, how many have the means and opportunity to actually pack up and leave the country? Less than 10%, perhaps? And of them, how many have ties that bind them to the United States such that leaving is psychologically difficult or impossible? Hard to say. But when you compare the number that have actually left to the number for whom leaving is a practical possibility, the proportion of "defectors" becomes much more significant.

Instead of finding fault with or casting aspersions on those who leave, why not straightforwardly and honestly confront the issues that motivate them to leave? Every one of the defectors I've ever known has expressed deep sadness at having to leave. Indeed, more than one either cried or held back tears as they told of the ways in which their country had betrayed them -- not intentionally, but through structures that they thought they couldn't change: HMOs, pharmaceutical companies, government bureaucracies. Instead of saying "good riddance" to these once-patriotic Americans, why not hear their stories?
 

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
Is there any real point to this thread? Or is it just a cheap shot at Americans?
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
I would say the majority of Americans have the means to get up and move.

The "defectors", which quite honestly is not what these people are but only an assumption made by those who think they are, present no issue. Patriotism, health care or any other issue don't matter in this thread.

Anyone asserting that the abc article presents a story of "defectors" and asserts it's importance on any issue from health care to basic rights when not having any idea at all who these people are give us nothing more than a prime example of intellectual dishonesty. No one knows why they moved. It could be for many reasons. Jobs, love, trouble with the law, political dissent, family.....

When people with to assert a point as argumentative they better provide some factual detail. This thread hardly rises to the state of hypothetical.

Next!
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Is there any real point to this thread? Or is it just a cheap shot at Americans?

A cheap shot??? rofl. Yes, whenever I invite someone into my home to partake of my lovely cuisine, it's always meant to be an insult. Same goes here. I was hearing from lovely Americans in that other thread who can't afford insurance for themselves or their children, who have to choose between health care and a place to live, and from insured Americans who have to pay $800 just for a pap smear, of all things. So if any are considering moving to Canada, which has a strong economy, universal health care and a whole lot of jobs going, this is the thread to discuss it.
 
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